I didn't say it was fair or not lopsided, the guy asked for one and I gave an example. :rolleyes:

So, 1.5 calls versus 8, now?

Because you’re a ****ing idiot that thinks turning a blind eye and refusing to look at it critically somehow makes you smarter or better. All of the evidence has been provided. You’re choosing to ignore it.

Congrats.

And he took off his helmet while in the middle of the field in front of a ref and no call. That's a 15 yarder

Find me an equivalent pic of Captain blind man bordering on worshiping physical contact prior to his "all star" appearance.

So the Chiefs lost last night because of the officials?

Nobody is saying the officiating was good. It sucked. They should have kept a regular group on it and not some piece-meal assemblage of refs who think the game is about them.

Way too much small market inferiority complex going on.

So, is it Brees' last stand or LA market conspiracy? Which one are you guys betting the mortgage on since it is fixed?

It doesn't. You're biased.

We had 2 chances to win/tie and we blew it. That’s it.

Even if the league was trying to help LA, we still had those chances and ****ed up.

No they lost for multiple reasons, and officiating was one. The fact that the officiating was one is unacceptable, especially considering everything that surrounded it (big market, home team, fire/shooting “rallying around the community” storyline, All-Star crew). Me and Detoxing called this in the GDT before the game. You expect me to believe something so obvious happening is a coincidence?

If they simply call that BLATANT false start on 3rd & goal that’s probably enough alone to be the difference. Yea we could’ve won the game anyways, but we shouldn’t have to. It should be so clearly lopsided. I’m sorry, you can give them a pass repeatedly, but I won’t.

Really it doesn't?

Do you legit believe that?

I'm sorry I think it's ****ing hilarious to not be willing to admit what we're watching here.

Chiefs had their chance to win the game, it doesn't change that the officials were an abortion in that game.

So that makes the league helping LA ok?

It’s like you ****ing morons can’t see both at the same time.

No it doesn't. You could take any game this season and break it down play by play and find hundreds of calls that were missed or calls that shouldn't have been. That's just how it works. The refs sucked hard last night. But equating that to a huge impossible conspiracy is just dumb.

DUMB****S really don't think games are slanted a certain way ROFL JFC probably the same people that thought wrasslin was real too. MUH HO-GAN!!

The Pats getting ZERO penalties against our elite talent SURE was on the up and up too right Fish...

I asked earlier in this thread what the call was against Hill. After he scored. I asked because if it was for the dueces sign, that should not be a penalty. In the Madden video game he does that. But after goff scored on his running td he Dunked the ball over the goal post. A clear penalty at this point in the NFL it was ignored. Neither of these penalties or the lack thereof changed the game but it does show at least the officiating crew was not enforcing the rule book correctly. We still lost because Goff drove his team down to score in the final minutes and mahomes failed to do so. But the refs weren't great.

I hate the word "conspiracy."

But if you did that breakdown, I'm sure you'd find that a few teams consistently benefit off of bad calls in big games. Pittsburgh and New England most obviously. Not surprisingly, now the Rams. I don't think conspiracy is the right word. But it's obvious as day.

They know why they use the word “conspiracy”. It’s just like the word “racist” in politics right now. Instead of making a legitimate argument they just label you so they don’t have to.

You notice none of these people are trying to dispute the missed false start for example?

Pittsburgh is the second most penalized team right now behind the Chiefs. Rams are right in the middle. It's clearly not as obvious as you surmise.

Why did they "ignore" a dozen blatant penalties on NE in a huge game in Fixboro??

There were a few terrible calls and no calls. There were also a handful of incredibly stupid penalties by us.

It didn’t matter in the end. It was in our hands and we blew it twice.

Yea if you’re going to ignore it completely I guess not.

The missed false start that would’ve probably led to a FG as opposed to a TD in a 3 pt game “didn’t matter in the end”?

Consistancy I think is all we want in the calls. If the deuces was a penalty so was Peter's laying on Mahomes.
If someone has false starts call them. Holding call them. Blatant miscalls to me are worse than ticky tack fouls

Chiefs honestly score 70 if they had the calls LA got.

Dunking over the Goalpost the TG Rule- is usually Always enforced now. An easy call- but it was Goff and you know the firefighters and all. The crowd had been through a lot so they needed to be uplifted.

Hill's peace sign was Offensive. Kneeling during the anthem wasn't, but the Peace sign is. The Rams needed to take some of the excitement back after the Huge play- so the Refs obliged. Pretty obvious.

The conspiracy loons always point out the fact that we get called for a lot more penalties than our opponents, never considering the fact the we might actually commit more. By their logic if the penalties aren't even, then that's hard evidence of bias against us. Never considered is the simplest explanation, that we just happen to commit a lot of penalties.

We're way above the league average in almost every category of penalty, and many of these are pre-snap penalties, or other penalties like hands to the face that are not subjective.

The refs are not making our guys false start. They aren't making people jump offside. They don't force people's hands up into facemasks or get people to grab handfuls of receivers' jerseys.

If there's some massive bias here, show it. Show us all these penalties that are BS against us or getting ignored for our opponents. Rarely do you see that, mostly you just hear that it's impossible that a very disciplined team like the Patriots could have a game where they commit few penalties. No evidence, just the claim that they couldn't have done it. But since this is a massive conspiracy in every game, there should be a ton of specific examples of clearly false flags being thrown.

Of course, some things are missed in every game, whether the Chiefs are playing in that game or not. Some things like holding and PI are somewhat subjective. But we largely do not have an argument against the flags we are getting. Every time they show the replay it seems like the DB has an arm around a guy as he's coming out of his break or he's got a handful of jersey or he's in contact before the ball arrives and isn't playing the ball.

We've got a mediocre offensive line that's holding and getting a lot of false starts because they are undisciplined and not very good. We have a secondary that's getting a lot of holding and DPI because they are undisciplined and not very good. This really isn't hard to figure out.

Hill definitely taunted BTW... it was how he did it this time. Lame call and they ignored two or three "taunts" by LA though

It's really really hard to admit that something you invest hundreds of hours into and for a lot of people is a big part of their lives and their happiness...it's hard to turn around and admit that it's all a facade. That everything you believed is bullshit and all of that.

For most it's just easier to either defend it, or ignore it and go on like it's always been. Coming to terms with some of these things is such a core thing for so many fans that they can't admit it because it makes them feel like they aren't authentic either.

That's why we have this issue, no one wants to admit something they care so much about is a bullshit facade for a business that makes money.

So here we stand...also it really is the societal way if you believe anything that is outside the box like say that the NFL isn't exactly on the up and up there will always be the majority to shame you back into the box.

He didn't dunk it, it was a layup. That's not the "TG rule".

And taunting another player during a play like Hill did is always going to be called.

Cochise once again simply ignores all the calls the refs "didn't see" on LA...just like what happened in NE. Sure, KC committed fouls, but only one team was CALLED for them. Go pound one out to Audio Slave or something to release this pent up frustration about our legit complaints.

Consistency is why we have this conversation all the time...like I said earlier the Children have different rules on the playing field every game.

What about the people who are "woke" to it still getting upset and spending time watching it?

Unless it's a CB laying on top of a QB in the endzone or removing his helmet on the field then it's not.

Show us all these penalties they're getting away with, and show us all the corresponding flags that are getting thrown against us for doing similar things.

They "didn't see it", Mecca

Well the WWE has fans and they know it's fake....it's just a different set of what people bitch about.

I'll fully make this comment I sit here and I hope that Mahomes is good enough that KC gets calls someday...it's horrible that that is where I am as a fan. I'll say this again too, he's the only reason I still watch games, I was ready to move on that year.

ROFL Did you even watch the games?

That's what I thought.

I've given DOZENS of examples in various threads.

Tony Dungy was even pointing the shit out man...

I also pointed out a couple and several others have been pointed out in the thread, to lazy to read it?

Are you ****ing serious? Are you going to pretend there wasn't a false start and hold by the same player on a TD play for the Rams?

And that's for starters...

That is just head in the sand bullshit, I don't wanna admit something so importan to me is ****ed up. It's why parents won't admit their kid is a drug addict even if they can see see. Well you know I've never seen him shoot up so he's fine.

Coschise, I will also say KC had a TON of calls go their way at home against Frisco and Denver. There is an obvious agenda to how games are called.

"Didn't see it" Just like Hunt and Kelce grabbed in the red zone leading to FGs against NE when they had like 3 TD drives from calls like that...

Yup. KC has 17 false start penalties(most in NFL). 13 offensive holding(4th in NFL). 14 defensive holding(most in NFL). We're a sloppy undisciplined team right now. It's that simple. Compare that to somebody like NE, who is very disciplined. The refs aren't the deciding factor there. Not when you can look at the penalties overall and see the patterns.

New Englands offensive line is untalented and grabby, yet they don't receive calls because well we know why.

Yea NE looked soooo disciplined tackling Kelce and Hunt in the red zone and still not being called for holding/PI

:rolleyes:

The evidence is out there. Those tweets were posted over and over. Keep pretending there’s no evidence though.

Anyone can be disciplined if they don't throw the ****ing flag. LA committed TWO of those fouls you rag on KC about on the same play and they called neither. NE was allowed to hogtie Ford, grab Kelce, grab Hill, grab Hunt, and NOTHING was CALLED

the biggest BS calls and non-calls last night were:

The first DPI on the 2nd or 3rd play of the game. It wasn't even close to DPI
The first personal foul on the opening drive
The consistent blindness to the RT for LA moving early
The consistent bear hugging and holding by the Ram OL
The tipped pass that had to be challenged
The forward pass that was ruled a fumble
The block in the back on a punt return that never happened

Add Tyreek’s BS taunting and Peters taking off his helmet on the field yet no call.

That’s 9 examples that these butt****ing morons are ignoring because we got 1 or 2 calls ourselves.

Sounds fair.

You can tell me the Chiefs are undisciplined, you can tell me they commit penalties because the secondary isn't talented.

The problem is one word...CONSISTENCY. Most games really do give you the vibe that just like most parents with their kids, the teams have different rules. If you are wearing this jersey you can get away with more than a guy wearing this jersey.

I don’t blame the refs for the loss but to say they infuenced the game is accurate and ridiculous.

"Didn't see it" Fish and Cochise in unison...

Some teams get the benefit of the doubt because of star players. It doesn't mean it's a conspiracy to change games.

I also think some refs would rather eat a flag here and there rather than get yelled at an hour by someone like Belichick. That's one of my problems with Andy. Andy rarely loses his cool. Andy should have freaked out about the false starts, but he doesn't. If the tv shows Andy turning all shades of purple arguing about a call, it somewhat forces the announcers to talk about it and make it an issue. Tomlin will occasionally take one for the team and risk a fine , but Andy never will. If your head coach isn't going take a bullet then **** it don't expect anything to change.

The Chiefs still had a chance to win but for anyone to tell me there isn't a problem with the NFL officials is just turning a blind eye.

For me to believe that they aren't intentionally ****ing with games you want me to believe that they are so bad at their jobs they should all be fired.

But hey defend the refs, more power to you.

I am not a conspiracy theorist and really the only game that I have a major problem with was the Pats game. There is no way in hell you can go through an entire NFL game, one where holding happens on every play, and not get a single penalty.

I just want consistency and fairness, either it call it for both teams or don't call it all.

Coaches and markets..like I don't for a second believe Reid coaches any different than he did in Philly and I'm pretty sure his team being disciplined and not getting penalties was always a talking point every week there.

Though I really shouldn't be surprised it is like this in other sports, especially in the NBA where the home teams gets all the calls.

It is what is I guess, just need to make sure we got HFA.

I don't believe refs deliberately steer games towards a planned outcome. It is too easy to spill the beans (after retirement) and bring down the NFL. The real issues are
- Game play is just too fast even for a trained eye to catch every detail, no way I am trusting a group of humans to make split second decisions with any consistency
- Rules are highly subject to interpretation
- Defensive penalties resulting in spot fouls or automatic first downs making it too easy to sustain scoring drives, all it takes is one untimely flag
- Timing of the flag for e.g. start of 3rd quarter vs last two minutes
- Plain incompetence aka Jeff Triplette

They sure saw that hold on Fisher in the playoffs against Pitt, but " didn't see" the blatant Squeeler hold on their game clinching pass to run out the clock.

And you're missing the most blatant one that wasn't called. Suh's personal foul against Mahomes.

Yup, can’t believe I forgot about that. Ford barely grazing Rosen’s helmet was a penalty but that wasn’t?

Cost us four points. Could have scored 70 on them with the calls LA got...officiating matters

Hill's taunting penalty was the correct call, he directly looked at the guy chasing him and taunted him. I don't like it but it was the correct call.

Agree about Peters taking off his helmet and not getting it called. Like I said they need to call the game consistently, which they don't.

Then Peters should have been called for taunting. He pushed his player off of Mahomes and then climbed on top of him....and then had to be pulled off. Whether he was shit talking or not.....that's a ****ing penalty every day of the week. Not called.

Exactly. Like Mecca said it’s about consistency.

Agreed just like Suh hitting Mahomes in the helmet.

Once again, no consistency

In 3 penalties.....that's 45 yards (including a new set of downs for us) that were blatantly not ****ing called by the refs.

Peters lays on Brady? Easy penalty.
Suh rips Brady back like that on a slide? Easy penalty and a fine.
Peters takes his helmet off against the Patriots? Called 100% of the time.

The NFL treats this shit like the mafia man...these guys are indoctrinated to not say shit, announcers won't even do it.

If Suh did that to Brady it'd be a talking point today about how he should be suspended.

I'd sure like to know what was said when they were face to face on the ground.

I found it hilarious that you can see a lot of these uncalled penalties right in the highlight video the nfl posted on Facebook. That false start stands out so bad a blind man could see it.

So refs are in constant fear of harm even after they are away from the game? Who even signs up for such a job?

This is where I'm landing in terms of solutions.

1. I don't think there's a big criminal conspiracy. It's too hard to pull off (though I have no doubt that individual players have thrown games - it's statistically a certainty). That's beyond my power to fix and beyond my optimism to think about, so I'll ignore it.

2. I do think there are occasional "business decisions" being made that impact games. I doubt that Roger is telling refs to make the Patriots or Rams or Broncos win, but it would be naive to assume that there's not the occasional wink and nod saying, "It would sure be nice to have a competitive game tonight." If the refs keep a game competitive, then the outcome can swing. I also think there's a leaguewide philosophy of ramping up scoring that likely infiltrates to game management. I hate it, but I think it happens and I can't do anything about it, so I'll sigh and ignore it.

3. It's impossible that there's not some star blindness. We all know that Tom Brady gets calls that Matt Cassel or Tyrod Taylor won't. That's human error, and it sends the lesson that your team needs to find a Tom Brady. Whatever. We can fix that by drafting Patrick Mahomes II and Tyreek Hill.

Those things can't be fixed, and that brings me to gold_and_red's good point.

The game is now too complex to be managed by humans in real time. It's not unreasonable to assume that the NFL is hiring the most qualified officiating crews that are possible, and they're still a negative story far too often. We don't see problems like this in baseball, so why in football? The reason is the complexity of the game and the rulebook. Even if the officials are calling it to the best of their ability and in the most fair manner, the subjective nature of many of the game's rules are going to cause inconsistencies. Some of those will impact the course of the game and others won't, but either way, it presents a very negative picture. The optics are bad. If your team loses and you blame the refs, you can probably make a pretty good argument for it.

The NFL has to simplify the rulebook somehow and convert subjective penalties to objective ones. And they have to convert subjective calls like catches and control of the ball to objective calls. They have to reduce the number of penalties so fans can cheer a good play instead of waiting five seconds to check for flags. The officiating controls the ebb and flow of games now more than the players do, and that's got to stop.

Yeah, we're supposed to believe that the NFL has these refs out there cheating and fixing games to supposedly increase NFL profits, while they pay them peanuts for a part-time gig less than 20 days out of the year. Makes sense, right?

Absolutely!

I’m thinking that was because the Rosen play happened in the pocket and Mahomes was running down the field.

Suh is a dirty POS so that’s not surprising.

This is an interesting debate.

I've never met a human who didn't exhibit some form of bias. (Actually, I don't think I've ever even met a housecat that wasn't biased.) Combine that reality with the fact that so many penalties in a football game are "judgement" calls and you have all the necessary ingredients for disparity.

Of course, that's the "human element" associated with officiating and I'm okay with that. But you have to ask yourself why officiate the games at all? What's the purpose of having rule "enforcers" on the field?

What I have a problem with is a layer of incompetence superimposed upon potential bias. When that exists, concerns are perfectly understandable. Last night, this officiating crew was obviously either sleep-deprived or incompetent. (Considering the blatant errors that had to be reversed, there's really no other way to describe what occurred.) If an observer can be truly objective, one has to recognize that incompetence combined with bias can well lead to unfair and unequal application of the "rules". This leads to doubt ... which is a logical and rational reaction to the kind of exhibition we saw from that officiating crew.

Trying to draw conclusions from a specific play or call is avoiding the basic problem. If the refs can't call a game honestly and impartially ... and most importantly ... consistently ... throughout the game ... game to game .... league-wide ... skepticism is an appropriate response.

We'd all like to believe that the typical officiating mistakes we always see are simply the result of normal, run-of-the-mill "human error". On the other hand, we could also be wrong about that.

FAX

Mahomes slid and gave himself up. Suh could get a career ending injury and a lot of people would be happy.

Vegas took a bath on the "Over" bets- Refs seen getting in line today at the casinos to cash out.

Easy Money.