<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">At 6-foot-4 &amp; 260 pounds, Alex Okafor fits the type of edge rusher Steve Spagnuolo wants in his scheme.<br><br>The Chiefs, unlike last year, are going to be using more stunts with players such as Okafor next to Chris Jones. Okafor had 4 sacks 9 QB hits last season.</p>&mdash; Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1106304953327456256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 14, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well, we're going to win with offense. Our defense just needs to be good enough.

And the Chiefs aren't bringing in guys like Okafor to replace Ford. They're bringing them in to be 2-3 year stopgaps until they draft a replacement. Lots of defenses build through the draft, but it's going to take a few years for the Chiefs to do that. Notice how all our free agent pickups are on 2-3 year contracts with very easy bailouts. Look at how we built our defense originally. We started out with guys like Sean Smith and Devito and Vance Walker, but clearly Dorsey was drafting to replace those guys as quickly as possible.

Berry only produces $1.5M worth of savings now. They don't get the rest until June 1.

Dee Ford isn't an "outstanding" player. That's the problem. He had one "outstanding" season, one good season, and a whole lot of NOTHING the rest of his career. He has chronic back problems and has discs removed from his spine.

He's not an outstanding player. And he's certainly not worth an outstanding price tag.

It's 11:30pm and Dee Ford is still gone. PBJ

Okafor ranked in PFF top 30 DE last year

Do you really think we have a better chance of winning in 2019 with Okafor and whatever CB we sign instead of Ford or Houston?

I already know what your answer is going to be but any unbiased observer of the NFL is going to say the latter gives us the greater chance.

I still don't know how tf were going to create pressure of the edges this season, a rookie taken in the late 20s almost never produce heavily as pass rushers in their rookie seasons and Okafor definitely isn't the guy to get it done.

Do you really think Dee Ford is going to repeat his 2018 performance? He's more likely to get hurt than repeat 2018. The most probable outcome is that he just isn't as good as he was last year and eats up $16M of the cap, preventing the Chiefs from getting other necessary pieces.

And for the record, the defense was AWFUL last year. Dee Ford and Justin Houston were invisible in the AFCCG and they were 6 inches away from going to the Super Bowl. If you think Dee Ford is the magical piece to get them to the Super Bowl, you're freaking fooling yourself.

Have you completely forgotten that the Chiefs have Patrick Mahomes? You're making a big deal out of literally nothing. Dee Ford doesn't matter. Justin Houston doesn't matter. The defense is going to be better next year without them.

They're going to generate pressure off the edge with scheme. How many times do people have to tell you that before it sinks in?

Yeah that's my point and why it's reeruned to sit and laugh at the inclination of signing Verrett.

Chiefs are having difficulty figuring out if Darby will be ready for training camp but taking a 1.4m flyer on a past all-pro as insurance isn't interesting for some people :rolleyes:

People complained about Matt Cassel less than you have cried about Dee Ford. Every thread, every day, non-stop. That franchise tag really pulled your trigger I guess. :rolleyes:

And i've already explained how talented Spags DEs have been in years he's been successful and how theres a lack of talent at DE in the years he's struggled.

Our defense was terrible because we had a terrible DC, However even the greatest DC is going to struggle with a defense that has been gutted of its talent. If Dee Ford is a complete failure in SF and Okafor, Speaks, Tanoh and whoever we draft create a ton of sacks and pressure ill gladly eat crow, however it doesn't appear that it is going to go that way at all.

I wonder if he has a neutral zone line in his new garage. You know , so he can practice.

I can see why people wouldn't want Verrett. He's never played a full season in his entire career. Any amount of money is too much if you think he won't play.

But the whole Darby thing is silly. He's either healthy or he's not. If he can't pass a physical why would anybody want him?

By the way, SuperTurtle saw on Reddit somebody said a guy on FSR said Darby failed his physical.

Oh look, it's Super Homer turned Debbie Downer. Do you get tired of flip flopping or do you just need more lithium?

They should have tried to keep Houston.

Letting Ford go, however, was the correct call.

Thats fine with me, I just wanted one of our talented pass rushers to be kept so that we weren't sitting here with Okafor and Speaks as our starting DEs.

Personally I obviously preferred Ford but I would be perfectly fine with keeping Houston instead as well. Getting rid of them both is where Veach lost me.

Wow, you made a post without crying about Dee Ford. :clap:

A step in the right direction.

Jesus. At this point we might as well chance a guy like Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. PFF gave him a 75.1 coverage grade last year so he can at the very least play at a high level to some degree.

I get why they did it. You can't shell out big money for guys that haven't consistently gotten it done. Both have injury histories and Ford has a history of being up-and-down besides.

Overall, I think Houston would have been cheaper to keep and that's why I would have kept him. I love Ford's talent but I value dependability much more than most here. All the talent in the world doesn't help from the sidelines, which is where I believe Ford will be at least part of 2019. That's what his history suggests.

That doesn't mean I can't be wrong but right now, that's where the evidence leads.

And the very next post- back to Ford. :deevee:

He is gone dude- come off the ledge.

All you've done today is cry about how terrible the defense is going to be. You should try not being such a hypocrite.

Our defense looks more of a run stopping D then getting after the qb

You're basing that off 1 year during Bountygate which is a bad comparison. He had good DEs in St. Louis where he was there for 3 years. He had a good secondary during the super bowl run and an outstanding one in 2016.

ROFL

How did you type that without talking about Ford?

The defense sucked last year- we have dumped our 3 best players and replaced them with guys with an injury history- not expecting huge improvement is not being a hypocrite, it is being realistic until we see how they come together in camp.

Nnadi and Jones is very solid. Speaks who knows. I feel like he will be better as a DE. Okafor is basically Allen Bailey but better run stuffer. We got better in the back end. Mathieu signing and potentially Darcy. Ward will ball out next year. I hope Watts can ball out as well. Our Linebackers May be the worst in the league. Hitchens I hope can play like he did in Dallas. Ragland shouldn’t see the field and the parking lot shooter guy sounds like a rotational piece.

3 best players?? Did Jones die

You can count his time as a head coach where he wasn’t the DC but I don’t see that as a good example to use as a comparison as much as you don’t like using the Saints bountygate year, why focus on when he’s the HC instead of his same current position as a DC?

We saw a big improvement in his secondary from 2015 to 2016 with the same roster outside of Jenkins in NY. What also changed in that time? They traded for Vernon, who was an all pro player in 2016 and had JPP available for several more games with a far higher output of pass rushing production.

The SB year, the strength was mainly in the DL, not the DB core. Do you disagree with that?

I'm talking about Ford because everybody else in the thread is talking about Ford. It isn't rocket science.

And you've gone way beyond not expecting huge improvement. You've posted negative crap about the defense in every thread you're in, all day. That is what makes you a hypocrite.

Now you're freaking crying about me crying about Ford. That not only makes you a hypocrite, it makes you ridiculous.

Give it up. I'll stop talking about Ford when the conversation is over. That's not up to me, that's up to everyone else here.

Well, I'm not using that as a case that DBs or DEs are better or worse. But the Bountygate example is definitely not a good frame of reference. The Giants in 2016 added both Eli Apple and Janoris Jenkins. There's no doubt they were bigger difference makers than Vernon. Yes, Spags had better DEs than secondary the first time in NYG, but his secondary was better than the DEs the second time around. More importantly, he drafted 7 DBs in 5 seasons with NYG... so regardless of whether he's right or not, he seems to think the team needs to be built around DBs first which is exactly what he seems to be doing here.

Probably already been said, but Veach has said numerous times that the strength of the draft is defensive line, so maybe the "secondary first" look right now is because they aren't confident in premium secondary talent getting to them in the draft.

I like this Okafor signing. He doesn't seem flashy but they only had two DEs on the roster, they needed to at least sign one and I'd rather a solid vet guy for a reasonable price than a $20m per year gamble.

I also think sometimes you can't win, the run defense was bitched about all season and this kind of move seems like it might solidify the run stopping gets bitched about because of the loss of sack potential.

I do still sort of hope they take a DE in the first who has more sack potential, but this is a good move I think.

The draft is strong in pass rushers too, which is probably why Veach felt it was ok to let so many sacks walk away. I imagine we will see an offensive lineman at some point but our draft but is going to be almost all defense.

This is going to be a great year.

Very solid assessment...

Yeah, this seems to be overlooked on this forum. His DE's in 07 were Strahan and Osi, both of whom had 13 sacks that year. The reason they were able to beat the Patriot's was because of their ability to pressure Brady with just their front four. But now we're being told we're just gonna blitz him alot... like that has ever ****ing worked against elite qb's...

I think we all understand that the front 4 have to be on-point. I think we also understand that this is going to take some development and drafting as well.
I'm not gonna' freak out on ANY of this shit until we complete this FA and draft, and get our asses to camp. It's WAY too early to be calling things a success or a bust at this point.

At the end of the day, we blew up the #31 defense in the league and hired a coaching trifecta that the majority of teams in this league would LOVE to have. I'm not worried one bit.

Dude, there's still a lot of cap $ and draft picks left. Why do some of you pretend like this is the final lineup?

Right???

Every time I see, "Speaks-Jimmy-T-Bone-Hamster", I just roll my eyes.

after last season, many people don't believe in Veach's ability to draft.

I know I have my doubts.

So, we can't give our opinions of the moves made so far?

You gonna pretend as if its easy to replace the production we've let go at a premium position, AND address the deficiencies elsewhere?

It's easy to say we can draft or sign free agent to address holes, it's another thing to actually do it. Hitchens was supposed to be an upgrade last season, how did that turn out?

Dee Ford doesn't fit in a 4-3 defense. Chiefs did the right thing. Some people are just too stupid.

The guy didn’t have a 1st rd pick. Give him a fair shot.

Regardless of your thoughts on Speaks, Nnandi was an A+ pick and DOD showed a lot of flashes, especially for a 4-3 scheme.

But wait until it's done. I keep hearing "WTF are we going to do because so and so are our starters now?!?!" Wait until the roster is set, geez.

this place is filled with insecure people

How many "hits" would you say Veach picked out of the 2018 draft? A "hit" meaning a great, good, or consistently flashing player.

Go!

Of course... because pass rushers are readily available...

Anyone who thinks spags was going to turn this around because of scheme change alone wasn't watching our defense last year. I would love for Houston and Ford like players on our defense. But resigning them with no flexibility to add anyone else wasn't the answer.

We needed a defense overhaul. We'll probably have 7 or 8 new guys with significant roles once we spend the $15m and finish the draft. Speaks, kpass feel like new players because they're finally playing in a scheme that fits. Not as drastic but id say the same as well for odaniel. So basically we've got 10+ guys who aren't bottom of the roster guys. They may not be sexy but they are good bets to contribute right away. We are in year 1 of a rebuild. If we kept Houston and Ford around we'd be bandaiding the wrong defense instead of blowing it up. We have to crush it with the draft. But this is the right approach.

So, he traded up to get Speaks... as an EDGE... BRILLIANT!

We have draft picks. We have cap space. What makes you think that either 1) we can't draft someone or 2) steal Lawrence, Clark, or Clowney?

JFC, just wait you ****ing know-it-all Johnny-come-lately.

:clap::clap::clap:

It's 8:45am and Dee Ford is STILL gone. PBJ

Nnadi - solid on the interior in the 3rd round
O'Daniel- flashed when in the sub-package
Watts- looked like a starter till his injury
Tremon Smith- excellent kick returner in the 6th round

Mackenzie better be of some use or that pick was thrown away

Speaks looked like crap in the 3-4 most of the time.. but I believe he will look much better in the 4-3. Fingers crossed

Those results are commensurate with any draft run by Dorsey that did not include a bonafide "star", and he has two such drafts on record with the Chiefs.

ROFL

Yep.

Right now, I like this signing. Would I have liked to keep Houston? Sure, but not for the cash he was going to eat up. I'm beginning to think pressure in the middle might be more effective than from the edge.
But our real flaw last year was not being able to stop the run. You can have a sack to create 3rd and long, but when the opponent continues to convert with 15-20 yard runs, you stay on the field forever. I don't care how good our offense is, if they can't get on the turf, we don't win.

It can't be understated. Somebody said yesterday they weren't actually the 31st ranked D because they had so many attempts against them. That person was partially right. But I had no idea until I looked just how bad it actually was.

The Chiefs were 31st in yards. Useless stat.
They were 24th in points against. Definitely not 31st.
They were 32nd in pass attempts and 31st in pass yards. This was that person's point. They gave up a ton of yards because they gave up a ton of attempts.

But here's where things go south.

They were 17th in rushing attempts but 27th in yards. Obviously, that's a quality issue rather than a quantity issue. And their poor run defense REALLY shows in the following:

They were 30th in average time of drive, 32nd in plays per drive, 31st in yards per drive, and 28th in points per drive.

In summary, the defense simply couldn't get off the field. Part of the reason they gave up so many yards is because they faced so many attempts. That is true. However, it is not completely true they faced so many attempts because of the offense. They faced so many attempts because they couldn't get off the field.

All I can add to this is that having a stable defense makes "scoring too quickly" a moot point.

It also shows that teams are trying to frustrate mahomes by keeping him off rhythm by keeping him off the field. If we force teams to pass a few good things happen... Spags' emphasis on corners will hopefully lead to DB's not dropping easy INTs. If not, the other team attacks us vertically and scores quickly. I have a feeling our D will give up a decent amount of points and yards, but we'll significantly reduce opponent TOP and will force more turnovers.

That's my point. Keeping PMII off the field keeps the score lower and TOP becomes more important. My other point about pressure up the middle is that guys like Brady and Rivers don't like big uglies in their face.

Speaks hit the QB 8 times in 4 starts.

Houston hit the QB 12 times in 12 starts.

If you’ve written the book on Speaks already, you are jumping the gun.

How many times do you think they dropped Speaks' fat ass into pass coverage?

Crazy thing is, I think Veach foresaw this LAST offseason. He was focused on stopping the run last offseason for this very reason IMO. However, as has been well documented, it did not get fixed. I really think his approach last year (if the run D fix would have been successful) was to encourage shoot outs.

How many times do you think they actually dropped Houston into coverage?

Justin Houston has never dropped into coverage more than 25% of the time under Bob Sutton. He took 719 snaps last year. If you used that as a conservative measure, he still rushed the passer on at least 540 snaps.

Speaks played 492 snaps.

It's weird that it feels like Houston was out there a lot - not so much last year but in the prior years. Was it just cases of the QB noticing and picking on Houston?

2 years ago that was certainly the case. He has been a step slower since the injury.

The sad thing is, the Chiefs pass defense was much better with him in pass coverage than with him rushing the passer in 2017. Scary.

Excellent post is excellent.

And thus couldn't it also be stated that the reason we were able to have such a good pass rush (you know number of sacks) is because Ford, Houston, Jones and the rest of the crew simply had the most opportunities?

I'm all onboard taking a giant wrecking ball to last year's defense and starting over. Its the smart thing to do.

I like this signing if for no other reason than improving the run defense.

I don’t expect the pass rush to be as productive, but long, run-based, clock-chewing drives are the No. 1 threat to the Chiefs offense.

Those were relatively easy to achieve last year, and the Patriots and Ravens both exhibited that late in the year.

A 43 under combined with adding Okafor and Speaks as starters on the edges will drastically improve the run D.

Next area of improvement is to add playmaking in the secondary and add guys who can hone in on the short area of the field and improve performance against quick routes. I feel like they’re close on that... adding a Cb and a S who can play the deep middle are still key parts of that.

Supposedly Pittsburgh and Baltimore are very interested.

I’m sure Mathieu is going to be moving around a lot, but I believe they want him to be the deep middle guy mainly. I can’t remember who exactly had the quote that said that but one of our beat writers had it.

Obviously, plans in March change, just throwing it out there.

Yeah, and I think he’ll do well. It seems like Adderly can do everything, too (cover WRs like a CB, play deep, play in box).

Would be pretty cool to have 2 interchangeable guys at S. Would give you a tremendous amount of flexibility and unpredictability in the back end, and let you make things tougher on QBs.

Good fits for him in 3-4 defenses. Houston just wasn't a fit for our 4-3.

Except a 4-3 team traded for him with the plan to play him at WDE and immediately paid him 17m per. So there definitely is at least 1 GM in the NFL who believes Dee Ford can play in a 4-3 and I don’t believe John Lynch is stupid.

I can agree with this and I will say I am probably over reacting. I just didn’t expect us to sign these replacements for such high amounts of money. My mindset was you either use a Wes Snead approach and add to what you have and go all in, or you completely gut it and open up tons of space.

I thought the Wes Snead approach was the way to go (even if it didn’t work out in the end for the Rams, their offense and QB aren’t as talented as ours) ofc I could be wrong and Veach might be a genius, time will tell.

Typical 4-3 DE who puts pressure up the middle. This move makes sense in our future defense and follows Andy's ideas on QB pressure. Not at all surprised.

Just came back to bump some threads to remind some of y’all how stupid y’all are...

Who was being stupid about anything. Nobody expected okafor to be Aaron Donald. We expected him to be a middling short term fix at DE. Of all the signings we've made I'm barely concerned about this one. If our coaching would get their shit together he could be adequate enough to fit what he was signed to do.

The conversation wasn’t about just Okafor...

You seem special.

man you're a certain kind of dumbass. Lets avoid adding any opinions and just try to bash people for discussing things on a message board. None of us claim to be geniuses when it comes to football. Get a life you broke dick