And you know why that's the dumbest thing in the world?

EVERY sub package has 4 down lineman.

If you're playing 60% of the game in sub packages that need 4-down lineman and trying to get a pass-rush with those 4 guys, including 2 guys that are going to play a conventional 4-3 DE, why not just run a 4-3 base so you HAVE 2 conventional 4-3 DEs?

Sticking with a 3-4 creates personnel mismatches when you go to your sub packages unless you're going to do shit like run a 3-3-5. And the Steelers have some success doing that with their more exotic blitz packages. It gives them the ability to show a bunch of different looks, especially with their zone blitz schemes.

But man...I just don't see how it makes any sense to run a 3-4 base package and standard 4-2-5 and 4-1-6 sub-packages.

And when Dorsey left and Veach came in, this didn't appear to change. That's the big problem. You fire a GM and hire another one because something isn't working.

So far, Veach has repeated Dorsey's draft mistakes and honestly, if you look at the Watkins and Hitchens contracts, he hasn't been much better on that front either.

Well, that's the easiest answer. The Dirty little secret is that Andy has a lot more say than people want to think.

They drafted Speaks with the mindset that he would replace Dee Ford or Justin Houston in 2019 and provide quality depth this year instead of relying on Frank Zombo.

I like that philosophy, but I was not a big fan of Speaks from the moment we drafted him.

I do like Nnandi. Getting a quality NT/DE with at least some past success as a rusher (high school) in rd 3 is exactly what you want IMO.

O’Daniel and Watts will play soon, but you simply can’t expect a 4th rd pick and the last pick of the 3rd rd to be ready to play immediately. It just won’t happen very often for any team.

It’s not like we were the Broncos and had 2 picks in the top 40 overall. We had to move up to the mid 2nd before to even get one of the talented players left that they thought could get on the field this year.

But again, I’m gong to be honest. Speaks has not looked good. The guy fell on his face on back-to-back plays which is a direct indictment on Veach, especially when he says the guy is never on the ground.

Well yeah, but I don't want to open that can of worms. :)

Yeah, but those 4 DL in those packages are what, 2 actual DL and some of our "OLB"s?

I actually like that in that you can get guys like Ford or Kpass or Houston on a guard or something and just get nuts. Give me big strong athletes up front and I don't give a shit if you run it for 5 or 6 yards on me. That's fine.

Whaaaaaaa?

Our window is literally longer than any team in pro footballs, man. We have the next Rodgers on this squad.

If propping the window open for another 10% over the next 2 years means closing it an additional 5% for the next 5 years - gimme the latter. I want more bites at the apple, not slightly bigger bites for less time.

Football's a weird ass game played in the weather with an oblong ball. You can never truly be sure that 'this is our year'. You're better served building for a 10 year window and with Mahomes in tow, we can do that.

We just need our GM to do a better job of using his capital. If he doesn't, we find a new one. Being the guy that brought in Mahomes gets you a lot of runway, but it doesn't get you an unlimited one.

It's easy to say that we can't expect 3rd and 4th round picks to play right away but when the vast majority of our 1st and 2nd round don't play right away either, something has to give.

At some point, they have to get some instant return out of the draft, regardless of round, or this defense is not going to improve.

Yeah the "Dorsey was fired for terrible contracts" thing was a terrible excuse. He didnt get fired the same day Reid got extended for no reason. It sucks because Dorsey is a good GM.

Which is why they suck.

We're trying to hammer square pegs into round holes by telling Houston and Ford to get on the edges. We need a goddamn Neil Smith or a Jared Allen on this team if we're going to spend so much time in sub packages.

You aren't gonna get one of those if you remain committed to a 3-4 because you're not even gonna try.

How many Super Bowls has Rodgers won since he got the mega-contract? Once Mahomes gets paid, our ability to win it all goes WAY down, regardless of how good he is. This team needs to have a sense of urgency.

Hell, they haven't had a first round pick since what, 15?

I guess you've got Mahomes there ofcourse but really, they've been weird in the first.

Finally, we've got the Qb. Lets accumulate as many as we can each year in the top 70 picks and start going.

Why can't Ford be that guy?

It's weird cause he was a pretty solid CB in college....apparently the safety position is something that he just doesn't do well.

Then honestly.....try his ass out at CB. I know Watts is a rookie....but ****ing throw him in there.

I didn't see him in college. I can't judge college DB's worth a shit anyway.

When I see great RB's I trust my eyes. When I see great pass rushers I trust my eyes.

When it comes to college DB's and WR's, I never get shit right.

Well he played at Minnesota so that's probably part of it but he was like their best player.

He never really got beat played a lot of man and was basically always up dudes asses and knocking balls away, he never looked lost like he does now.

Nnadi has impressed me in his limited time, but Speaks has a ways to go.

All this talk about him kicking inside on passing downs and I’ve yet to see it once.

It's weird he looks fat and slow yet he doesn't really look strong either, getting pushed around a lot. For the way his body shape is where is the power?

Good post...

You’re right, the main goal should be to compete for a championship EVERY year that we have Mahomes...

I guess I just look at this offense, a potentially top 10 all-time unit, and think... damn, we need to go for it. He’ll never have better weapons than this. Idk if any team will. But Mahomes did make Albert Wilson look pretty damn good, so.

Different situations IMO. Veach has Tyreek, Hunt and Mahomes on rookie deals for 2, 3 and 4 more years. Now is the time to spend money.

I have zero problem with the Watkins contract. It’s only 3 years and we can get out of it with minimal damage in year 3.

The problem with Dorsey is he did whatever the hell he wanted. He is not organized at all and he isn’t good communicating.

That Tamba contract was a goddamn disaster and we all knew it the day it was handed to him. Cutting Maclin by phone was obviously a decision made by Dorsey on the fly. He deserved to be fired.

He also needed Andy AND Clark to step in to get Berry signed.

I don’t know any CEO that wouldn’t be fired for that conduct. I mean FFS the guy didn’t even look professional. He didn’t even wear a suit and tie for his introduction as the Browns GM. He wore a goddamned pullover.

It’s easy to see why Clark fired him.

Ah, that makes sense.

Some guys who are great in man coverage suck in zone. Some guys like to have their back to the QB and que off the WR to react to the ball. Safeties are supposed to read the offense.

Wasnt impressed with his tape and you're right 3ven though he lost weight he still looks like hes rocking around 25% BF

I still think that it’s possible that Andy knew how great Veach’s track record of scouting was and simply didn’t want to lose him. I mean, I know Dorsey probably got canned for other reasons too, but I’m just thinking out loud here...

Can Albert Lewis still play?

Chiefs Insider
@ChiefsInsider
·
4h
#Chiefs are still kicking tires on adding CB Baushaud Breeland to their woeful defense, price point I'm told remains a lofty climb for KC with limited cap space. Bottom Line: With offers from non contenders exceeding what KC can pay, Breeland must choose SB Chase or the Coin?

Haha

Sure thing there Nick.

Straw that broke the camels back was probably the Berry contract debacle and then releasing Maclin in the manner he did it. Regardless of if he was wrong or right, that stuff was borderline cruel and Reid seemed to reach his limit.

Veach had no first rd pick. Pick 46 was the highest draft capitol he had this year. Here’s every defensive player drafted 46 or later by Dorsey:

Tanoh Kpassagnon
Ukeme Eligwe
Leon McQuay
KeiVarae Russell
Eric Murray
DJ White
Dadi Nicolas
Steven Nelson
Ramik Wilson
DJ Alexander
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Phillip Gaines
Nico Johnson
Sanders Commings
Mike Catapano

Dorsey took Russell, Murray and White in the same draft and they ALL ****ING SUCKED.

I don’t believe Athan for a second.

Because nothing about his play has indicated he actually can be?

If the dude hasn't signed by this point, he's either not ready to play or he's all about the money.

I don't think he can pass a physical. He's making the visits now so that when/if he can pass that physical....he can sign quickly.

Was watching the condensed game last night and two plays in a row Speaks got pancaked.

Two plays in a row with Speaks falling to his knees and the LT jumping on top of him.

Very rarely do you see corners do this and it drives me crazy. They just keep their backs to the ball while it travels right by their head for a completion or TD especially in the red zone. All they have to do is read the WR's body language as to when the ball approaches and then turn around to pick it. There could be so many more picks IF DBs would practice this especially in the red zone . For all of my disdain for Peters, I will give him credit that he did this on numerous occasions and you don't have to have all world talent to do this either just good instincts as to reading the WR's body language and rte timing of when the ball should be approaching. Notice my emphasis in the red zone.:D

Yup. Sounds like he had MRSA.

It's gotta be MRSA if he still can't pass a physical, and that ****ing sucks.

How has not one CB or coach figure this out. you are a damned genius. :rolleyes:

TIME TO MOVE THE BREELAND THREAD BACK TO THE LOUNGE

this guy is a ginormous clown - I know - water is wet type of comment - but Nick, dude? Give it a rest.

That shit really makes no sense, the Chiefs are sitting at about 11 mill of cap space acting like they can't fit a guy in the middle of the year in, is absurd.

Nowhere near enough strength in his lower half and doesn't have any hand-fighting technique to speak of.

To be a DE? A pass rush DE?

Mahomes is going to get us a discount on so many guys in FA. We are going to slowly turn into NE in the sense that guys will WANT to come here if they are serious about getting a ring and being apart of championship culture.

Yeah.

He's easily at his best in a wide-9 setup when he can use his speed to get a tackle rocking/cheating and then can use built up energy after a couple of full strides to get into a guy's body and use his own momentum against him.

With his hand on the ground where he comes straight up into a lineman - he'll just get stood up and rocked back, IMO. He won't be able to defeat that initial punch to get himself around the LT and he doesn't have the strength to push him back and get him to re-set and swim around him or something.

I just don't think he has the tools to play the position in the NFL.

You're 100% correct, Dee could never be a DE

His effort has looked much better this year (as expected) but he is still a one trick pony for the most part... tackles would eat him alive at DE

The 34 has worked well for the majority of the time Sutton has been here. Before the Chargers game we held our divisional opponents to 12 ppg. The bend but dont break will work even better than ever now that we have an offense that can put 30 a game on teams. The Big Bad Jags got lit up in the playoffs. If Houston wasnt damaged goods or Tanoh develops this wont even be a conversation.

I'm trying to find the stats maybe I'm tripping but the first 2 games it seems like Ford has been our best pass rusher. I cant find the stats but hes gotten the most pressures.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dee Ford vs. Big Ben (<a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a>)<br>5 total pressures (1 QB hit, 4 QB hurries)<br><br>Dee Ford on season (<a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a>)<br>9 total pressures, tied for sixth in NFL among EDGE rushers</p>&mdash; Arrowhead Pride (@ArrowheadPride) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadPride/status/1042130437102075904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 18, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

TROOF!

Exactly. Finding another young consistent dominant pass rusher is what is really missing. Dee Ford just being average is helping. Hopefully Tanoh or Speaks can be one going forward. Although I believe Speaks is Bailey's replacement.

Ahh Al Bailey. The most frustrating Chief ever. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. I move on from him them BAM! He takes the tackle like hes doing the sled drill right into Big Ben.

Need more pass rush from an 8 (?) million dollar end. I like him but just doesn’t flash enough for such a strong mfer. I say Speaks more than Tanoh as replacement because Speaks is ****ing slow. At least with KPass you can see some flashing ability like the Bears game

How about our 20m a year LB show up and touch a QB once in awhile. Sutton might drop him into coverage way too much but i've seen Houston rush the passer and get handled by a single offensive lineman. He's just another LB now. Houston should be making about 5 million a year now, not 20.

well, again, they're dropping him in coverage all too often.

How about asking the corner to not hold and take away his game changing sack fumble that Chris Jones scored on?

Well, considering there were 60 pass plays against Pitt and what 40 or so against LAC that's not impressive at all.

He had plenty of other chances to get pressure. You can't blame Orlando Scandrick for corking the lightning in the bottle. Scandrick is actually earning his paycheck.

Maybe not but it seems like Ford is the only guy getting into the backfield much at all. He never seems to finish but he gets back there.

Dee Ford is 47th among edge rushers on pass rush productivity (the % of rushes resulting in pressure), per PFF.

He’s just simply not that good. They need to draft some passrushers in the off-season to hopefully replace either him or Houston. Both have been disappointing.

Maybe if he practices and learns to YELL real loud, since hes back there so quick, he can scare the QB into thinking he may get sacked!:hmmm:

Murray is not usually out of position. It's just that he's always a step behind his man. I wonder if he just doesn't have the athletic ability to keep up or if his mind is not quick enough to read the route. Yeah, I like the idea of putting Watts in there instead of Murray. Hopefully, the Chiefs coaching staff soon realizes that may be a better solution.

Oh for God's sake, give it a little time. :rolleyes: Most rookies are not ready to come in and start right away. I would bet that we will start seeing them play more as the season progresses.

That's understandable, but I'd argue the ceiling of this draft was always going to be low. Part of that is because they didn't have a 1st round pick, but there are numerous players taken in the 2nd and 3rd round who are already showing flashes on other teams. I hope this is just a one year anomaly, because we're in trouble if every draft turns out to be a bunch of role players without any playmakers in the bunch.

He's getting stood straight up by backup RTs (or was it the LT). You can single him up and stop him.

He's getting dropped into coverage because we aren't going to routinely send 5, he's better in space than Ford and Ford is probably better at getting after the passer than he is.

The 'stop dropping Houston into coverage' thing has run its course. I think the staff knows that he's simply not the difference maker off the edge he used to be. So on plays where they send 5 - sure, send 'em both. But if you're just using 4 to try to generate pressure, the smart play is putting Houston in coverage and sending Ford.

If that's the case then Houston absolutely has to be cut after this season, or at least have his contract renegotiated. You can't pay $20 million for a linebacker who doesn't rush the passer.

I don't think that's even a question. Of course he needs to be released or take a significant paycut.

The guy may find a second wind and make me look like an asshole, but the dude I saw last year and for the first 2 games of this season is probably more efficiently used in space.

If you look at Houston as the traditional "SAM" linebacker, you're probably about right. I have always felt that the SAM's responsibilities center on effectively setting the edge and being capable in coverage. The WILL, OTOH, has a little more freedom to operate being on the weak side; can freelance a bit more and make plays so you look for a guy with more pass-rush ability there because the secondary weaknesses are as easily exploited.

Sutton treats Houston like a traditional SAM and Ford like a traditional WILL. Given their respective strength's and weaknesses, that's probably the way to go.

Murray actually is out of position, a lot. He's just not a good football player, at all. Very very low football IQ.

left nut basically already said everything I wanted to say.

I dunno. He's still looked good this season to me. Maybe I'm seeing what I wanna see. He bench pressed the RT into Ben for a sack strip on the penalty.

He wasn't the only one that got there on that play.

ok?

The only time he's really applied pressure, it was because of a bigger breakdown on the o-line. He's not beating his man straight up much at all.

Scandrick has a better PFF grade than Trumaine Johnson, Kyle Fuller, and Malcom Butler.

LMAO

That’s proof how shit the CB market was this year.

Orlando Scandrick has a better PFF grade than Kendall Fuller too.

I saw that, but Kendall Fuller is on a rookie contract and still looks really good.

I still would’ve liked to add Kyle if we could’ve, but Johnson would’ve been an expensive 1-2 year year fix IMO. Butler has just been awful.

Got the numbers on Houston and Jones?

Well Scabdick had a pretty good game last week. I felt that during the game. I remember being impressed by his coverage while watching it live.

So the PFF grade isn't surprising.

I'm not down on Fuller though. I was skeptical of him prior to the preseason. To this point i think he looks solid.