ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=29)
-   -   Duncan's Mock | 12.18.19 (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=327430)

DaneMcCloud 01-24-2020 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14749105)
If he can find a way to get a contract that yields us a 4th round comp pick, you gotta let him walk and it's not even a question, IMO.

Watkins effort last week might have worked him back into a 3rd/4th round value as a trade piece.

I think I've come to the conclusion that a LOT of this comes down to next Sunday. Win it and you can bank your chips. At that point you go ahead and deal Jones and Watkins. You let Robinson leave for the comp pick. You re-stock the draft cupboard and do a soft re-load around the key pieces of your squad.

But if you lose Sunday you probably have to maintain a very aggressive posture for the 2020 season.

While I agree that February 2nd will determine numerous personnel decisions, I think it would be a very risky move to allow Robinson to walk while also trading Sammy Watkins.

At that point, the Chiefs would have only two reliable and proven receivers on their roster in Hill and Hardman. And while the 2020 draft has a ton of wide receivers and running backs that could contribute at some point during the 2020 season, if Hill or Hardman were to be injured for any amount of time, the Chiefs would presumably be left with the trifecta Byron Pringle (26), Gehrig Deiter (27) and Marcus Kemp (25), none of which have any significant playing time nor have they proven to be game changers on any level.

I know there's been a lot of push towards drafting a center and/or a guard early but I don't think those positions are as important as some believe, as the Chiefs are in the Super Bowl after losing multiple starting and backup offensive lineman for multiple games and in some games, the entire left side of the line for several games in a row.

It's obviously really early in the draft process but I expect Veach to trade out of the #32 spot in order to accumulate more picks, unless by some crazy happenstance, a player that they cannot pass is available at that point. But with their expected cap restraints heading into Mahomes huge contract year and the money due to players like Hill, Clark and presumably, Chris Jones, he'll want to take advantage of "cheap" players.

And before it's pointed out that "5th year option!" would be lost by trading back at #32, there's a chance that will go Bye Bye in the next CBA, rendering that option moot.

I realize that this is most likely an unpopular opinion but if I was running the Chiefs 2020 draft, I'd load up on offensive players, especially running back, WR, TE and guard. I'd make this offense so unstoppable that opposing teams would have no chance to outscore the Chiefs.

O.city 01-24-2020 02:07 PM

I’d go offense.

I think woth the new cba there’s gonna be enough money that the chiefs can make things work however within the realm of reasonable

DJ's left nut 01-24-2020 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14749744)
While I agree that February 2nd will determine numerous personnel decisions, I think it would be a very risky move to allow Robinson to walk while also trading Sammy Watkins.

At that point, the Chiefs would have only two reliable and proven receivers on their roster in Hill and Hardman. And while the 2020 draft has a ton of wide receivers and running backs that could contribute at some point during the 2020 season, if Hill or Hardman were to be injured for any amount of time, the Chiefs would presumably be left with the trifecta Byron Pringle (26), Gehrig Deiter (27) and Marcus Kemp (25), none of which have any significant playing time nor have they proven to be game changers on any level.

I know there's been a lot of push towards drafting a center and/or a guard early but I don't think those positions are as important as some believe, as the Chiefs are in the Super Bowl after losing multiple starting and backup offensive lineman for multiple games and in some games, the entire left side of the line for several games in a row.

It's obviously really early in the draft process but I expect Veach to trade out of the #32 spot in order to accumulate more picks, unless by some crazy happenstance, a player that they cannot pass is available at that point. But with their expected cap restraints heading into Mahomes huge contract year and the money due to players like Hill, Clark and presumably, Chris Jones, he'll want to take advantage of "cheap" players.

And before it's pointed out that "5th year option!" would be lost by trading back at #32, there's a chance that will go Bye Bye in the next CBA, rendering that option moot.

I realize that this is most likely an unpopular opinion but if I was running the Chiefs 2020 draft, I'd load up on offensive players, especially running back, WR, TE and guard. I'd make this offense so unstoppable that opposing teams would have no chance to outscore the Chiefs.

If the option's in the contract, it's in the contract. The new CBA wouldn't retroactively extinguish it.

Ultimately I don't have any problem at all focusing on offense. My only concern is reaching at ANYTHING. At 32, odds are you're not finding anyone with a true '1st round grade' anyway but if there's someone that's a cut above the rest of your guys, hang position and take him.

Offense or defense just shouldn't matter in the draft when you know you're gonna have to cover a lot of holes w/ rookie level deals in the coming seasons due to Mahomes contract.

We're gonna make hard decisions everywhere and at WR is the spot where Mahomes can most easily make chicken salad from chicken shit. And it's also where you can find low-cost vets looking for 'make-good' deals, IMO.

They would be well served to take advantage of a market efficiency there, IMO. That's how you're able to use the force multplier effect of your all-universe QB in a way that helps offset the costs of his contract.

DaneMcCloud 01-24-2020 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14749841)
If the option's in the contract, it's in the contract. The new CBA wouldn't retroactively extinguish it.

That's most likely true, unless the Union & Owners decide to retroactively void those 5th year contracts in order to get something else: 17 games? No THC/CBD testing? More time off? Larger game day rosters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14749841)
Ultimately I don't have any problem at all focusing on offense. My only concern is reaching at ANYTHING. At 32, odds are you're not finding anyone with a true '1st round grade' anyway but if there's someone that's a cut above the rest of your guys, hang position and take him.

I agree, unless it's a stacked position like RB or WR. Do you take JK Dobbins at #32 or trade back, add a 3rd, and grab a player who's slightly less talented with that pick instead?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14749841)
We're gonna make hard decisions everywhere and at WR is the spot where Mahomes can most easily make chicken salad from chicken shit. And it's also where you can find low-cost vets looking for 'make-good' deals, IMO.

They would be well served to take advantage of a market efficiency there, IMO. That's how you're able to use the force multplier effect of your all-universe QB in a way that helps offset the costs of his contract.

I don't know, man. I'm not singling out Robinson as anything special and his drops are certainly an issue but the guy is a really solid-if-not-spectacular downfield blocker. Sammy Watkins has the ability to take over games and we've seen him do that on the biggest stage when it counts most. While I most certainly agree that Mahomes can make any receiver "Look Good", he can't make a WR receiver be consistent. Consistently block, consistently make difficult catches, consistently run and get open, etc. and so on.

If that was the case, Robinson, Pringle and Deiter would have looked other-worldly at times and I just didn't see that at any point in 2019. *

The other thing to keep in mind is that the 2020 WR Free Agent market, outside of a few huge names which will cost as much as Watkins, just isn't that intrigiuging.

Sometimes, it's better the Devil You Know Than the Devil You Don't.

DJ's left nut 01-24-2020 03:06 PM

Just depends on the cost. If I can save $13 million and pick up a draft pick by moving Watkins and replacing him with, say, Nelson Agholar at $2 million, I'm gonna do that.

If Robinson can be brought back on a deal that's effectively 2/$7 million, I'll be just fine having him bridge the gap. But if I need to go to something like 3/$18, I'm out.

It isn't as though anyone really wants to blow up this WR corps, but it's a position where we can find some 'make-due' options and may just have to hope for sustained health from Hill/Hardman.

A $40 million quarterback means that you have to cut back on luxury items and having a 3rd (or 4th) starting caliber WR is most assuredly a luxury item at that point.

DaneMcCloud 01-24-2020 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14749902)
Just depends on the cost. If I can save $13 million and pick up a draft pick by moving Watkins and replacing him with, say, Nelson Agholar at $2 million, I'm gonna do that.

If Robinson can be brought back on a deal that's effectively 2/$7 million, I'll be just fine having him bridge the gap. But if I need to go to something like 3/$18, I'm out.

It isn't as though anyone really wants to blow up this WR corps, but it's a position where we can find some 'make-due' options and may just have to hope for sustained health from Hill/Hardman.

A $40 million quarterback means that you have to cut back on luxury items and having a 3rd (or 4th) starting caliber WR is most assuredly a luxury item at that point.

Man, if Robinson can get more than $2.5 million per, which is more than Chris Conley received in FA last year (and with better numbers to boot), more power to him. Take that money and run.

But if paying the QB means that the Chiefs have to start all over with developing their WR corp while signing garbage players like Nelson Agholar, this fan base had better put the kibosh on expecting multiple Super Bowl wins with a roster filled with dopes after their starters.

The running back position was atrocious in 2019 and it took a good bit of luck to get the #2 seed because of it. Can you imagine a WR corp filled with Hardman and a three other scrubs if Hill was again to miss significant time?

For the most part of my life and Chiefs fandom, it's been fun to play GM. But moving forward, I don't envy Veach or anyone in the college or pro personnel departments because their jobs will become 100 times more difficult after Mahomes signs his Supermax deal.

duncan_idaho 01-24-2020 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14749902)
Just depends on the cost. If I can save $13 million and pick up a draft pick by moving Watkins and replacing him with, say, Nelson Agholar at $2 million, I'm gonna do that.

If Robinson can be brought back on a deal that's effectively 2/$7 million, I'll be just fine having him bridge the gap. But if I need to go to something like 3/$18, I'm out.

It isn't as though anyone really wants to blow up this WR corps, but it's a position where we can find some 'make-due' options and may just have to hope for sustained health from Hill/Hardman.

A $40 million quarterback means that you have to cut back on luxury items and having a 3rd (or 4th) starting caliber WR is most assuredly a luxury item at that point.


Yeah, I’m down for this.

Watkins cap number becomes just the base salary if he’s traded, right? 1 year at $14 million is probably a deal one of those teams with cap space is willing to make. I’m sure you could find a team in the NFC interested in that for a 3rd round pick or maybe even a 4th.

That would give KC the option of finding a way to keep Jones.

I think they can bring Robinson back cheaply and would like to see that done just for continuity’s sake, and spend a pick on a WR you hope to develop into a good #2 who does some of the things that Watkins does.

Having another #3 might put you in range to draft a WR there.

I really think Mims could be dynamite in KC’s offense. He’s huge, is a hands-catcher, has track speed, and creates quick separation with good route running.

DaneMcCloud 02-27-2020 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14749841)
If the option's in the contract, it's in the contract. The new CBA wouldn't retroactively extinguish it.

As I mentioned last month, the 5th Year Option would likely change or be dropped altogether. For now, it looks like it's the former:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...h-year-option/

Per a league source, the new labor deal would wipe out the current formula for determining the amount of the fifth-year option, replacing it with a formula premised on performance or playing time.

Under the revised approach, which would apply to the 2018 draft class, a player’s position would take precedence over draft slot. For any player who qualifies for two Pro Bowls in his first three years, the fifth-year option becomes the franchise tag amount. For any player who qualifies for one Pro Bowl, the fifth-year option becomes the transition tag amount.

While this new formula helps players who play and/or play well, it makes it cheaper to squat on a top-10 player who for whatever reason doesn’t play much and/or who doesn’t play well. This device could become particularly useful for teams who draft quarterbacks in the top 10 and decide to squat on them for multiple years.

If the top-10 player doesn’t play, his fifth-year salary no longer will be the fourth-year transition tender at his position but the number currently applicable to players drafted from No. 11 through No. 32: The average of the third- through 25th-highest-paid players at the position.

Thus, for purposes of the option, draft slot becomes meaningless. Playing time or performance would be the only thing that would alter the number paid to players in their fifth years.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.