If NFL teams agree with you he won’t go in the 1st.

Which one?

I never said neither had a shot to go in the first but I have been far more confident about Worthy than Mitchell. I'm still not confident in Mitchell in the 1st. You have to put it up on the field too. Worthy did both. Epic combine. 1k WR. Torched #1 CBs. Mitchell did not. Mitchell has the potential to end up the long-term better player though, that I can see. He simply has better size, a true NFL #1 build. That doesn't mean he looks like a #1 right now because he doesn't.

How many WRs go on and have good NFL careers after having one good year in college and that wasn't even that good of a year?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Top WRs by Speed Score* in the 2024 Class<br>*aka weight-adjusted 40-time (more predictive)<br><br>1. Xavier Legette (119.0)<br>2. Brian Thomas (118.9)<br>3. Adonai Mitchell (115.6)<br>4. Johnny Wilson (110.7)<br>5. Bub Means (110.1)<br>6. Cornelius Johnson (109.1)<br>7. Rome Odunze (108.1)<br>8. Devontez…</p>&mdash; Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1764086726367068400?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 3, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Worthy is a toothpick. You never draft toothpick sized receivers.

I want a WR who will punch other teams in the face and take their lunch money.

Not some tiny make a wish kid that will get bullied and broken.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">��️&quot;I really like Mitchell&#39;s tape a lot&quot;<br><br>NFL Films&#39; <a href="https://twitter.com/gregcosell?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@gregcosell</a> shares his film breakdown study of Texas WR Adonai Mitchell��⬇️<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLCombine?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLCombine</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticketmaster?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ticketmaster</a> <a href="https://t.co/KirTCMOmCp">pic.twitter.com/KirTCMOmCp</a></p>&mdash; One Bills Live (@OneBillsLive) <a href="https://twitter.com/OneBillsLive/status/1763675936451354894?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 1, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Not a prerequisite IMO.

DeSean Jackson was. He has a case for the HOF.

DeVonta Smith is. All he's done is put up nearly 3200 yards and 19 TDs in 3 seasons.

Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown, Tyler Lockett and T.Y. Hilton did alright for themselves too.

My comp for Terry McLaurin was a bigger TY Hilton. That's a very good football player.

I don't like Worthy as much as Terry McLaurin coming out.

I had a 1st round grade on Hollywood and I don't like Worthy as much as him either.

I prefer Mitchell to Worthy but that speed...is insane. He could obviously break but I'd trust Reid to put him in situations he can succeed. Man this is a great year to need a WR

Worthy could have some value if he hit and was used right.

If Nagy wanted him as a gadget slot then he might bust.

As a vertical 2 decoy where he runs down field as fast as possible he could have a Gabe Davis impact.

Faster and smaller but go 3-4 games where you don't notice and then have a game or two where they seem important.

Buffalo not resigning Davis but drafting his replacement.

If they get Thomas Jr that's a massive upgrade at Vertical 2.

I am team ALPHA.

He was not lying when he said he doesn’t run full speed every route so he can sustain drives.

MahomesMagic knows what he’s talking about.

Get this guy at all costs.

Mitchell’s speed is just as crazy if not more so with his weight. If they don’t draft either in the first it’s a massive mistake.

I have been suggesting people watch the career highlights for Worthy, because you can see his progression from his freshman year, and it also shows how tough he has is.

Also, I suggest the Georgia highlights for Mitchell. He looked more dynamic with the Bulldogs, but they do have probably one of the best staffs right now. Texas? Still building, maybe, but not at the Georgia Bulldog level.

Before today I would have been fine with Mitchell at 32 (as long as Thomas and Franklin weren't available) but now I know he will most likely be gone.

Oh I agree, he's my preference. I think he has the greater potential. I slightly disagree with crow as I think Mitchell goes before Worthy. 4.35 is plenty fast enough to take thr top off if that's what teams want, and there's less bust potential it seems.

Franklin is now the interesting one for me. Obviously the 40 was disappointing but he's 6" 3 and 4.41 isn't slow. Still a great YAC guy, young. Trying to work out how I'd feel about him at 32 if the others are gone.

Yeah pre combine I had it as Franklin, Mitchell, Worthy , with Mitchell closing the gap. I figured if the 40s were similar I MIGHT prefer Mitchell because his route running is a step above for savvy. Now I'm fully onboard for Mitchell. Probably, marginally, I'd go for Worthy over Franklin now.

I doubt AD makes it to us, but Sark doesn't run a very deep WR rotation at Texas. Even with a deep WR room, his top guys really don't get much rest.

Those guys hardly ever sub out and when a receiver came off the field it was usually Whittington coming off to sub in a second TE when we went into 12.

There wasn't much rest for Mitchell or Worthy during the season, so it wouldn't be a surprise to see more athleticism out of AD once he's in the league and part of a rotation.

Congrats to Team Alpha!

I think you might have made a fair case this weekend with Michell and others.

Team Alpha: Mitchell, Coleman, Legette

Team Speed: Worthy, Franklin, McConkey

?

Hey look! Mahomes Magic has a mult account!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is wild to see Adonai Mitchell compared to guys like Julio Jones running the 40-yard dash. <a href="https://t.co/hsQQT05tDd">pic.twitter.com/hsQQT05tDd</a></p>&mdash; Hook&#39;em Headlines (@HookemHeadlines) <a href="https://twitter.com/HookemHeadlines/status/1764031254939246640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I wish I wasn't so slowwwwwwww...



:D

Mitchell is a really good route runner, who happens to be huge and very fast. If BTJ or Mitchell are anywhere close to us on draft day, I hope we make a move for one of them. Maybe Mahomes will throw to Mitchell in the off-season, since he went to Texas and may be around there, and like Rice, he will give Veach his seal of approval.

I wanna be impressed, but he just does not play that fast on the field. He just doesn't.

I like Mitchell, and have liked him (I think he was my first pick in the first offseason exercise I ran, or maybe in the second). I don't like him as much as you.

But still... I don't think 4.35 shows up very often on the field. The long TD down the middle against Texas where he has to track the ball over a shoulder is the only one highlight that really shows off that type of speed.

Better to have it in the tank than not have it, of course. And I know he did the interview where he talked about running routes at 80 percent or whatever to stay fresh all game. But I do think he'll have to give closer to max effort on all his routes in the NFL to be effective at that level.

If there's one thing Reid and Mahomes love, it's a WR who doesn't like to run.

Mitchell not going full speed still more impactful than Mecole, Skyy Moore or MVS running fast and doing jack.

Same with frail Franklin that doesn’t accelerate well or CPs tiny tot gadget Worthy.

Sorry, I want a real WR, not some gimmick.

I realize Brett Kollman is an entertainer but he made a solid point on Adonai.

He’s so smooth that he does not look fast. Whereas a Franklin is taking all these fast steps that go nowhere.

I sort of agree but also re MahomesMagic's point on smoothness. He also seems to really vary his speeds to lull DBs, to be honest it's one of the things I liked about him. The variation in releases, speeds...it feels deliberate. He isn't going 4.35 most routes and it's by design, but there's also flashes in routes where he absolutely looks that quick to me, it's just in 10 yard bursts not 40. Just my 2 cents.

Mitchell and worthy are both gone before we pick and we aren’t trading up for a wr. I just don’t see us investing that much in a wr. If one fell to 32, maybe, but the more reasonable targets are after BTJ, Mitchell and worthy. They are all gone by 32.

Rick Spielman, former NFL GM, said he would pick Adonai over little Worthy for the Chiefs if both were on the board for Kansas City.



He also mentions that Ladd McConkey weighs more and was a better football player than Worthy.

That's a good reason to do it in reverse. Spielman was a terrible NFL GM. I could do better from my couch, literally.

LMAO


Even if what you said was true, irrelevant. Spielman way more connected with NFL scouts than the analytics guys on Twitter.

I was thinking of the guy that was GM for the Lions that took WRs like 3 1sts in a row... Wrong guy

I am not going to Google but my recollection was Spielman did well for a while then eventually had a few bad drafts and was gone.

But he was successful for many years.

Either way, I don't know how anyone can conclude that Ladd McConkey is in the same tier as Worthy or Mitchell. He's in that next tier but the drop is substantial.

He's not in the same tier as Mitchell.

He is a better football player than Worthy.


So similar enough tier to Worthy.

I would place McConk high 2nd and Worthy as a mid 2nd to late 2nd.

Yeah, he played for Detroit but was GM for Minnesota. I had to Google the other guy... Matt Millen... now that guy is a ****ing doofus. Spielman did okay, I can respect his opinion.

I think a lot of positional variation gets thrown by the wayside though.

That's like saying any LT can play LT for a zone-passing team or a man-running team. Or that any ER can play 4-3 LDE, RDE, 3-4 OLB, or 3-4 5T. We just know that isn't how it works.

Andy Reid's offense is predicated on quickness and variability at the WR spot. You better be able to play at least 2 spots with regularity, especially when you get outside of the X. Even then, he moves guys a lot.

On top of all that, I'm just not impressed with Mitchell saying he ran a lot of routes at 80%. That's not a great thing to be telling future employers. It does confirm what you see on tape too, because he looks every bit of a 4.6 player on tape. The last thing I need to see out there is a guy half-assing it until he feels like it. And that, alone, disqualifies him as an Alpha.

I think you are just reading way too much into the guy.

If NFL teams agree with you he won't get drafted in the 1st.

I asked you to bet the under on 4.59 going off what I saw on tape. I said Worthy would run at least a 4.29. I don't think that's "reading" into anything. I said immediately after he ran 4.34 that I had more questions than I had before and then he outright confirmed he was half-assing it a lot so he could last the entire game. So now you want him to go into an Andy Reid offense that runs these guys all over the place. That scares me a little.

I don't know, maybe you are reading into it too much?

My belief is he was saying he was focused on getting open, not just running fast down the field. Not "half-assing it".

As to Reid's offense, someone has to line up outside. He can do that and he can line up in the slot too.

No big deal.

Maybe you should be more concerned about Worthy outside against NFL corners rather than if Adonai could get open from the slot.

Why would I worry about Worthy on the outside? He was the focal point of college defenses and constantly drew their #1 CB.

NFL corners different than college.


It's certainly a bigger question if Worthy can escape top end press than if Adonai could get open from the slot position.

So, you have no concern about your boy struggling to produce against the lesser college CB most weeks? I do.

You’re way too driven by college production.

Parris Campbell was the focal at Ohio State.

Did not make him an NFL focal.

You are using a terrible example if you want to make one. Injuries are the reason for Parris Campbell not being a great player.

He just wasn’t that good.

Overrated based on college role.

And he's also got your alpha traits, so there's that. 6'1" 205 with 4.31 speed. Could just as well end up being Mitchell.

He was never an alpha.

His teammate McLaurin was my guy.

I'm an Ohio State fan. Not anyone in their right mind would have thought McLaurin would have developed into anything more than a quality deep ball WR/#2. The fact that he developed into a top-shelf #2, low-end #1, much like Godwin in Tampa Bay, is much to do with his work ethic and the right fit.

I screamed for Stefon Diggs, but that doesn't make me the end-all-be-all expert on WRs either.

It takes a good bit of luck with WRs sometimes. I've become a bit of the opinion that intelligence matters a bit more at WR than it's given credit because I've seen far too many top-shelf athletes burn at the position. That is hard to gauge for us. I can gauge 1k yards receiving and a reasonable drop % and get part of the way there but even that isn't full-proof. Quentin Johnston, so far, case in point.

Mirror-mirror on the wall,
who's the most alpha of them all?

I'm not bothered by the 80% comment, I think it was a misguided attempt to suggest there's more in the tank, like a 4.35 40. I do agree on the intelligence of WRs point. I think I said the same somewhere re Moore and Rice that the physical differences mattered but I think the mental ones did too. If one of these guys is an obvious dummy I could probably favour the other.

This video is probably a Q, but I'm really hoping leaning towards Brian Thomas Jr.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AJwwk7besX0" title="LSU WR Brian Thomas Jr. 2023 Highlights 🐯 ᴴᴰ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Did you see this one that came out from Luke Easterling?

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/20...hy-rome-odunze


Has Thomas at #9.

I had not. He must see the same things I do.

lol Damn! I thought you meant #9 WR for a min and I there was a glimmer of hope ROFL

Worthy, Mitchell and Brian Thomas are all gone before we pick. Can yall argue about guys after that? The argument should be about the next tier of guys; Franklin, Coleman, McConkey, Pearsall, Legette, and maybe Walker? Whoever is in this tier is what I’d love to hear y’all argue about.

AD Mitchell is a big WR and he timed fast shows that speed on the field occasionally. Teams are gonna see that and games like the Bama game and salivate. He checks a lot of boxes, especially with his hands and his combine. Someone is gonna fall in love with worthy and take him in the 20’s. Teams covet that speed and deep threat. Worthy has production and shows that speed on the field and his route running isn’t bad either. He flashes great route running. Brian Thomas is big and can run and has production. He’s gone before we pick. AND we haven’t shown that wr is a priority for us. We traded hill and signed guys like MVS. We traded for Toney. We brought Mecole back. We have every reason to believe that the trenches will remain the priority, especially in a draft that’s deep at WR. We are much more likely to have one of these third tier WRs bc that 2nd tier is likely gone before we pick or the chiefs don’t value WR. Either way, we are more likely to have that third tier group of WRs for the chiefs. So, who would you rather have; Coleman, Franklin, mcconkey, pearsall and etc? Who do you like From that group?

Of that group, McConkey probably. He just comes ready to roll, not much development needed.

Me too! 🤣

I understand that worthy was the #1 receiver at Texas, but Mitchell still averaged LESS THAN 4 receptions per game. That's not very good. Why was he utilized so little? 2 or 3 catches per game against really bad defenses?

Hence why some of us like him, but aren't 100% sold.

The production just wasn't there, even this year, which was relatively a breakout season.

The argument is alot about Franklin and Mitchell because both should be there or around there. Either could go a little higher or a little lower. My argument is Mitchell isn't a 1st rounder, his is that Franklin and Worthy both aren't. I'd consider Mitchell if my top 6 were gone. He is basically only considering Mitchell. Does that solve it?

I mean, paralysis by analysis season right? When we start thinking about how great a 40 catch 600 yard WR that ran a great gauntlet is while simultaneously knocking a 1350 yard 80 catch WR that has comps to Chris Olave and DeVonta Smith by guys not named me, then it starts getting weird. At some point what the kids did on the field matters a whole metric ****ton. We can parse that out ad nauseum but there has to be a dividing line where you separate guys by round based on traits/ceiling and production/projection. Just because I think a guy will be good doesn't mean he is that good right now. A guy who is good right now might not have as high of a ceiling as the next guy, etc. Tis the season. They all have warts that need ironing out to some extent or another too. I can say confidently that I'm not worried about Franklin's ability to catch a ball on the football field because he had a shitty gauntlet drill, he's proven that already. Now if it were a 25 catch guy I'm looking at in round 6, then yeah it might matter more.

Anyhow... my rant... I guess if you want to axe all those guys out, I would definitely not take a WR in round 1. I'm not even considering it. Maybe round 2 if the chips fall right. If not, I might push the issue in round 3.

I loved both players coming out. Don't see those comps at all.

I was higher on Olave than almost anyone. Olave does not play like Worthy.

That particular comp reference is for Franklin, not Worthy. And the other was for Coleman, though I'm probably off a few catches. I'm just spouting about how ridiculous this time of year gets before it settles back closer to a two months ago come the draft.

Between Worthy, Franklin and Mitchell, i think Franklin is the guy id feel most comfortable spending a 1st on. He's the most complete of the 3 imo and put stuff on "tape" that i believe are high degree of difficulty plays, which is something i'm constantly looking for.

I get that Mitchell's RAS is through the roof, but goddamn i keep going back to his "tape" hoping to come away impressed and while i do like what i see from him more than say, Quentin Johnston from last year (whom i thought would be a bust), there's still nothing that pops out as special or particularly NFL-esque.

I like Mitchell's ability to hand pluck the ball. He's got ideal size. His RAS is obviously /drool. But goddamn the man does NOTHING with the ball in his hands. He often goes down with the first defender, doesn't really break a play open. Would like to see him stay on his feet more. He's fallen down where big plays coulda been had. Not great body control, idgaf what others say about that. If he had great body control he wouldn't be falling down on some of those deep routes ala MVS. And for a guy who runs a 4.35, he looks very 4.4 on the field so im not sure what to make of that.

To be clear, if the Chiefs want to draft Mitchell i'd fully support it. It's not like a Skyy Moore "hate" thing from a few seasons ago.

Ok. But I don't see Olave/Franklin either.


Keep in mind, Olave went 11th overall.


Olave far better route runner, better COD, and faster initially.

Franklin's combine showed exactly what I saw in his games...he takes a while to get to top speed.

I'm with you on supporting it if it happens. I don't know that they can make a "bad pick" in those top 10 or so WRs. Inevitably though, we'll get the but but but DK Metcalf!!! shit for years again.

I've heard there are some questions about Mitchell's effort and for that reason the team interview process will be important for him.

He looks like a first-round lock to me, but if he's not instilling confidence in the interviews about his work ethic, then he could fall.

I have a hard time believing that Mahomes wants a guy who admits to going less than all out most of the time so he can go all out once in a while. Mahomes is so about knowing where everyone is at all times. How is Mahomes supposed to know that the guy will be where he is supposed to be, and when will he be there if he doesn't do it on a consistent basis?

I hope that makes sense.

I'm really kind of keen to the idea of making a bold move for Brian Thomas Jr. Now, he looks like Alpha quality to me and there's just something about LSU WRs man.

Worthy exploding just might help that cause by taking "one more guy" off the list before him. Maybe.

Been wondering the same.

What's the move?

I suggested "Sneed + 5th for #15 + 6th I'd happily take Thomas Jr @ #15" in a different thread.

The more I watch Mitchell the more I see potential massive star.

There does need to be a question about his work ethic. There’s plays he straight up looks like he takes off. What’s interesting is he seems like a really good teammate was cheering on every catch and running up to people after plays during their playoff game. So it’s not a lack of interest in the game.

That means on a contender like the chiefs he could really blossom. If im KC I risk it all on this dude. Trade up for him.

How he pulls up out of his block in the 40 just looks freakish and effortless. His hands look strong as hell. Just screams insanely natural athlete. I love how aggressive he attacks angles and man coverage. Bama game shows that. Just a great one on one player which is what will be happening in his first year. Really when you think about it he compliments our roster super well.

I like BTJ too but he doesn’t look as natural. More controlled.

I’m down to pick Worthy but I’d be way more greedy here and bet on this guy being the biggest star of the wrs in this draft. Realistically he’s well more equipped to do that than worthy.Worthy is also a freak and I don’t think we could go wrong. The upgrade to wr is much needed.

Drafting them both thru trades should be a serious consideration. We really need 2 wrs. They’d be cheap. Mooney is about the only free agent that intrigues me without dropping way too much money.

Let’s look at the last few years drafts for WRs in the late first. I threw in Christian Watson & Elijah Moore also at 34.

2023
No. 21: Quentin Johnson chargers
No. 22: Zay flowers ravens

2022
No. 16: Jahan Dotson, Commanders
No. 18: Treylon Burks, Titans
No. 34: Christian Watson, Packers

2021
No. 20: Kadarius Toney, Giants
No. 27: Rashod Bateman, Ravens
No. 34: Elijah Moore, Jets

Wouldn’t the production, traits and etc of worthy, Mitchell and Brian Thomas jr be better than these guys? I could see Franklin maybe being there but I think your final point about all those guys being taken before we pick and the chiefs taking a wr in round 2 or 3 is most likely to happen.

This "former scout's" opinions on WRs sound like MMs. I'm just wondering who stole who's ideas. :D

https://firstroundmock.com/

Has Thomas Jr is a 5th-round caliber player. Worthy is a 3rd round player. Franklin is a 2nd round player.

Mitchell is going to be a superstar (and he might end up being one, who knows) and ever says the word "alpha!". McConkey, Polk, and Corley are 1st round caliber.

Well, ask WannaGOback, it's a MM mult.

Takes a 5th grader to know our writing styles are completely different. And we disagreed pretty strongly pre combine. I was high on Franklin now i think otherwise.

I also don’t spend day and night looking at this shit. I watched more tape of Mitchell and I’m convinced. Also I’m still high on Worthy even tho he isn’t.

I'm just razzin MM, mostly because he bowed out and left the draft game. I is sad.

:thumb:

I tend to agree with Steve Smith's take - he ain't half assing, he's pacing his routes to get the corner out of position and then exploding past them when they do. I guess you had Terrion Arnold's speed pegged at like 4.7 then? Cause he burnt Arnold to a crisp for a whole game - reflecting his play speed.

I don't grade a player on one game. So if the argument is "Well he beat Alabama's great corners" then the argument is flawed. He had 3 catches in that Alabama game. If two of those receptions didn't go for TDs, would you still be singing his praises? Probably not.

But beyond that, I didn't conclude by watching one casual play that he doesn't play fast. If I agreed with route pacing as the entirety of the excuse, I wouldn't be questioning his play speed. Route variation is something you look for. Amari Cooper is a master class in route pacing. Speed looks like and issue on tape repeatedly, which includes having to push off to open at the end of a go route, or not being able to outrun coverage on a completion where he should as a 4.3 player.

I'm going to pull up his highlight reel for now. At 0;34, this is good route pacing. That's what you're looking for. Not looking at a lot of the running in quicksand moments.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aFteC7APDzo?si=eR6JlYtcuJL6u8kU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't even dislike Mitchell. I actually kind of like Mitchell. I don't know that he'd be the guy Reid would prefer. This is a team that relies on a lot of speed and quickness and a ton of movement. I don't think he has the consistency there.

The odd thing about Mitchell is I'm not sure I heard rumours of him running 4.3 territory before the combine. I thought he looked plenty fast enough, but it seems noone else did. So I kind of see crow's point. But a mid 4.3 is a mid 4.3. I know it's not in pads but...you can kinda either run that or not, and you really don't need to run it EVERY snap.

I think he's going to be a really good player, might be the first WR eval I get right.