I believe that you also have been all over his jock. Wasn't it you that came in here calling him Lamarvelous?

King wants to be Lamar Jackoff's private ball washer. He's got a hard-on for the Ravens. He wants to be the bread in a Lamar, Ingram, and Peters sammich.

Makes me wonder why he isn't posting on a Ravens forum.

It would be hilarious if Mahomes said, hey, I don't have to be the highest paid QB in the league. Give me $25 million per year and use that extra $15 million to build a better team around me. Prescott and Watson would be screwed, and the Chiefs would be setup beautifully. Of course that's not going to happen. But it would be great if it did.

I just noticed that Lamar scored a "Blazing Two Points" at the Pro Bowl Precision Passing event. He blamed the wind.

Nowhere to go but up for the leader of the Jacksons 11.

FAX

It's funny that he scored lower on passing accuracy than the non-quarterbacks who were playing.

If he did that, he should demand (in the contract) that the $15-20M of “savings” be spent on quality offensive linemen. I think if you give him an incredible OL, the offense will be unstoppable.

I agree

I dont get this mentality of "lets bash every other QB whos not Mahomes" ?

LJ isnt Mahomes, but hes an exciting young talent that deserves praise as well.

In the "beat a defensive back" competition, quarterbacks are supposed to throw the ball past defensive backs into a group of small to large holes on a 10' x 15' wall, from a distance of perhaps 20 yards. Four of Jackson's first six throws missed the wall entirely.

It's just hard to watch non-Mahomian quarterbacks now that we know what a real quarterback is.

He's fun to watch. Seems like a nice guy too.

I don't have a problem with him, but I do have a problem with anyone in the media who wants to say he's "the same" as Mahomes. This statement applies with Deshaun Watson too. Lot of very lazy people in the media. All 3 of these guys are damn good football players, but one of them is a phenomenal passer and the others are not.

Says the guy that is constantly making threads/posts about those other QB’s and making comparisons to Mahomes.

Yes that is obvious to everybody. I think Lamar Jackson is now in the stage of beginning to be figured out. Obviously the Titans did a good job. That's the blueprint. Get ahead, get them down, run the heck out of the ball and make him throw to come back. I don't think he can do it. He is more of a running QB. In their 14 - 2 they were very often ahead. They got big leads and ran that read option.

With Mahomes there really isn't much to figure out. Just enormous talent there. Can throw darts from inside the pocket, outside the pocket, can scramble and buy time, scramble for yardage, plenty big and strong enough, rocket arm, extremely accurate, reads the field well, makes good decisions. He's just excellent. Anybody who watches the game can see he is better than Lamar Jackson. Lamar is RG3. Eventually RG3 got figured out and also took too many hits and got injured. You are going to see the same progression with Lamar Jackson.

I think Patrick Mahomes is so gifted that if he is the QB of your team, you should not waste time with threads hating on other gifted players.

I think leading the league with 36 TDs with only 6 INTs and setting an NFL record for rushing yards by a QB is more material to evaluating Lamar Jackson than a gimmick skills contest.

The gimmick skills contest is like a pro day. Lamar Jackson did not ace his pro day, Mitch Trubisky and Josh Rosen aced their pro days. BFD

Lamar Jackson should be converted to WR. Bill Polian had it right all along.

He's one of the 5 worst throwing quarterbacks in the sport. If I needed someone to make an accurate pass with my life in the line of COURSE I'd skip Jackson and take Ma......tt Moore.

Or Henne. Or Chase Daniel. Or another dozen backups in this league and evidently at least two wide receivers.

I don't need to shit on Lamar Jackson to build up Mahomes any more than I need to shit on Todd Blackledge to support Len Dawson or you to prove how awesome Rainman is. Rivals need to be in the same general tier of each other and these guys shouldn't even be playing the same position.

Lamar Jackson sucks and will never win shit in this league.

I can't imagine anything more material than playoff performance. Lamar has a long way to go in that regard. The gimmick skills contest shows part of the reason he is struggling in playoff games.

I'm not sure he should have competed in the Precision Passing Contest. It isn't fair to embarrass him like that. Precision Passing isn't his game.

In Mexico, they don't allow you to match your fighting squirrel against a pit bull. Even the most fierce and savage of fighting squirrels aren't ready for that level of competition. And if it's good enough for Mexico, it should be good enough for the Pro Bowl.

FAX

This thread is as smarmy as I've ever seen. As a Patriots fan, if this is how we sound then I apologize with all my heart because this thread is ridiculous. Yes Mahomes is great, best player in the league IMO. Russell Wilson is right behind him. Lamar is one dimensional but is clearly this years MVP. When Mahomes gets paid 40mil per year it will be interesting to see how good the the Chiefs will be - some weapons on both sides of the ball just can't be paid like they can now.

Good thing for him the KC front office seems pretty good at finding weapons in the draft. They will keep paying Tyreek and Kelce. The others can come and go. What helps is that tight ends are seriously undervalued for some reason. Gronk was the top end of the market around $10M. That's a joke when Julio Jones is at $22M.

Not sure how the presumptive MVP bows out of that. But boy he should have.

He's Tebow 2.0 with a better supporting cast. Take away the play action pass and he's toast.

Jackson’s a system QB.

Not bad for a running back

Except the Lamar Jackson apologists have started this bullshit narrative that Mahomes is only successful because he’s surrounded by playmakers and he has Andy Reid coaching him. In other words they ignore Jackson’s 0-2 playoff record at home, ignore his 0-2 record against the Chiefs and imply that Mahomes just got incredibly lucky to be dropped into the perfect situation when he was drafted. Ignore what their own eyes tell them which is Mahomes elite arm and accuracy are second to none.

And he's got serious clutch factor. Been down by 10+ points in 9 games a pro. For 8 of those games, he led a comeback to get the 4th quarter lead. For the 9th game, he was not able to get the lead in the 4th quarter because Russell Wilson kept hitting long balls on the Chiefs crappy secondary. Mahomes scored 30 points in the game but lost by 1 possession.

I'm not even that high on Lamar and this is a truly terrible take. The guy lead one of the best offenses in history and lead the league in passing DVOA. He's not Mahomes, but he's still one of the better Qbs in the league, even with his limitations. Calling him a bottom 5 throwing QB is laughable.


This post is some homeristic nonsense. It's not something anyone who seriously evaluates QBs would ever say. TBH it makes me rethink any of your previous posts and makes me want to take them less seriously. It's that bad man. It's on the level of something people would invent to strawman for dumb Lamar takes.

I don't really care.

Lamar Jackson without his legs to create space isn't even a Power 5 caliber passer.

I hadn't thought about the show "Pros vs. Joes" for years, and then Lamar start throwing.

It's always been a laughable comparison. Lamar Jackson is not that good of a QB. Good runner? Absolutely. Not a good passer. He's fortunate he has an offensive coordinator willing to play to his strengths and the team does well for it. He's not anywhere within orbit of Mahomes as a passer.

Go **** yourself, Patriotfan.

Lamar is really good and so is the Ravens offense. They’ll be a top offense again next year. Every single starter is under contract for next year i think. What I find interesting is that throughout the year, just like we’re seeing now with Mahomes, pundits would would bring up potential injury to the QB as a viable way to slow down the offense. It’s pure desperation. It’s what people say when an offense looks unstoppable. “Mahomes might get injured! He needs to get hit! Be physical with him!” It’s not actually a tactic that will slow down this Chiefs offense.

No one cares what you think, Patsfan.

Not really. Other than the bottom 5 part. I think his overall abilities elevates him above that. Id forgotten how inaccurate he was till the Titans game. His ball placement is pretty bad. His success as a passer seems to be reliant on the Ravens getting the early lead and ground and pounding the rest of the way which opens up some favorable matchups for him to pass.

Ive credited the Ravens for going all in on changing the offense to maximize Lamars strengths and not looking back. Many teams just would not have done that.

I dont think its sustainable over the long haul, unless he improves as a passer. Remember RG3? I remember talking heads questioning if he was better than Andrew Luck. That didnt last long.

Give me Mahomes over Lamar all day without question, but Ravens will be a top 5 offense again next year. Lamar is not a GREAT thrower, but in that offense he's good enough to cause a lot of problems. He threw for 345 against the Titans. It's silly to look at that one game and think that he's been figured out. That offense is really, really tough to stop.

You either didn't watch the game, or you didn't comprehend what you saw.

If you watched that divisional round game and came away thinking positively of Lamar as a passer...I don’t know how. Ya, he had a shit ton of yards on FIFTY NINE pass attempts. All those yards and all they could muster is 12 points.

He’s not clutch. When he has to make a play he comes up short. He’s an average QB that wows people with his running. Everyone knows that.

I'm not going to ignore how he played and how that offense performed during the entirety of the 2019 regular season and think the Titans have somehow cracked the Lamar code. Ravens will be a top 5 offense again next year.

That second interception he threw was alarmingly bad. Not because of his accuracy or throwing ability, but the decision making.

That’s a throw you just can’t make at the NFL level. When Vaccaro shows that he’s staying in the flat, that throw is dead, you cannot attempt it. It will be an interception 9/10 times.

BINGO !!

Lamar is like that "starting talented pitcher" that no one has seen that in the beginning "mows everyone down" 'for a little while'. But once everyone has seen him for a time, then the hitters begin to make him have to "pitch" and IF that pitcher has not learned how to "truly pitch" they begin to hit him and hit him hard.;)

The difference between Mahomes and Lamar(and there are many;)) besides arm talent and scrambling(to look downfield first which Jackson does not he just takes off) is that Jackson needs all the support around him in order to do what he does. Mahomes does not. IF Lamar does not have a stud offensive line, does not have stud TEs, nor has Ingraham at RB, nor has Hollywood at WR, Jackson becomes severely 'neutered' IMHO.

Whereas Mahomes does not. Mahomes can take mediocre talent around him and make them better raising their level of play not only because Pat is physically talented but even more so because Pat is actually learning the game to maximize the players around him. Mahomes is a serious student of the game and Jackson is still learning and how far he goes with it who knows? BUT if they continue with that offense it will seriously stunt his growth in learning the game because right now his defensive/coverage reads and being able to manipulate defenses are just elementary at this point because of his talented legs and the talent around him.

My point being Jackson doesn't have to be a HUGE student of the game at this point BUT this will eventually catch up to him and prevent him from winning the bigger games IMHO because DCs will figure him out over time IF he continues not to be a true student of the game. Especially when the arm talent is not there and when the talent level around you ebbs and flows over time and it will as it does for every QB and it is the truly great QBs that can take this in stride because they have become a true student of the game.

FYP

Nevermind. He doesn't even throw okay for a WR.

Bob Sutton had no problem stopping Lamar.

Neither did Spags.

Lamar doesn’t suck and the Ravens’ scheme hasn’t been figured out. That’s what I’m saying. Vegas agrees. Ravens have the same 2021 Super Bowl odds as the Chiefs. But, Mahomes is the superior QB no question.

Titans put out a blueprint to stifle Lamar Jackson. He's going to have to develop much better accuracy of he wants to repeat this season.

Lamar Jackson wasn't, isn't, and never will be better than Patrick Mahomes
 

I think that the funniest thing about Jackson is that people just assume he is going to get better and that their offense is set up to be good with him for years to come. You see it in this thread and all in the media that he is some sort of guarantee to improve and keep leading a top offense. I think he is much more likely to have a Mayfield like regression next season than to do anything resembling what he did this season.

I’ve said the Ravens will have a top 5 offense next year. You disagree with that?

Yes. We've seen these types of offenses have extremely short shelf lives in the past. Lamar has a long, long way to go to develop as an NFL QB.

That the Ravens had a top 5 offense is a testament to Greg Roman. He completely optimized that offense to minimize the weaknesses of Lamar Jackson. I don't think he'll be able to do it again with teams having an entire off-season to mull it over, but we will see. That was just a horrific performance by Lamar Jackson in that contest. Can we all agree on that?

Jackson didn’t play well in that game, but the entire Ravens squad looked sloppy. It wasn’t all on him. It’s reasonable to think teams will be better prepared for the Ravens’ offense next year, but to think they’re going to go from the number one offense in 2019, to just an average group next season, especially considering they aren’t losing anyone on offense, is dumb.

**** the Ravens. I hate this team.

Sometimes hard work doesn't get you shit in the NFL.

See: Tim Tebow

I don't mean the Titans game -- he sucked in that. I mean the Pro Bowl throwing contest -- that was an embarrassment. I wouldn't be surprised if next year Jackson has more than a few games like the SD playoff game. I really don't think his accuracy has improved since then -- it was scheme. Overall, I'm sure he'll have some big games, but I just don't see that offense with him winning a title.

The biggest issue I had with his performance was not as much how poorly he threw but more of his nonchalant demeanor about it. Perhaps he thinks it’s no big deal, who knows. But if he can’t develop as a better passer then he will be out of the league, or a backup “gimmick” QB in about 4-5 years tops.

The Chiefs squad looked sloppy when they went down 24-0 to the Texans and we saw what the best QB in the league did about it. He led the team to 28 points in the 2nd quarter in comparison to Jackson who could only generate 12 points in spite of all his “yards”.

My take on this discussion is that as an NFL fan I am thankful for differing styles of play. I can appreciate Lamar being excellent in their offense. Styles of plays make match ups. I love watching a team like the Titans have to defend a team like the Ravens and then turn around and defend the Chiefs. They have a good defense but one of those two styles is going to find your weaknesses.

I agree that Lamar's style is more likely to lead to a shorter career, but we will see. Mahomes has had more injuries to this point and Luck (another pocket passer) is already out of the league.

I am beyond geeked out having having Mahomes on the Chiefs, but let's enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts. I have no interest in taking today for granted.

It's a silly goofball event, so I'm not surprised he was nonchalant about it.

EDIT: Did you mean the playoff game? I thought you meant the silly skills challenge at Pro Bowl.

Do you think Mahomes would have mailed it in like Jackson did?

No. Mahomes would have put on a show with the football and beat everyone handily, then he would have kicked their asses in ping pong, hitting a baseball, three-point shooting, golf, monopoly and horseshoes.

That winning self-drive to be the best at all times is the main difference between the two.

Enjoy your next 20 years of irrelevancy...

Who knows. Mahomes chose not to participate in the 2019 version of it. One thing I noticed in the 2019 video. The announcers were giving Russell Wilson a hard time because apparently he was terrible in the 2018 edition of this goofball event. I guess the bottom line here is if Russell can struggle really bad with it, then we should probably give Lamar a pass. :thumb:

Is it? I see it kind of like the 08 Dolphins and the wildcat offense. Nobody knew how to stop it all season, because it was so different than what anyone had been doing. It flummoxed defenses, and averaged 7yds/play. The next season, defenses had figured it out in the offseason, and it was no longer effective.

We'll see if that turns out to be the case here, but I think it will be - I don't think they'll be a top-tier offense again.

Vegas disagrees. I'm certainly not rooting for them, but definitely respect the zone read offense as legitimate, especially with a guy like Lamar Jackson running it. They'll be really good again next year.

Who cares about Vegas? Of the preseason super bowl odds, 5 of the top 10 didn't even make the playoffs. The Niners has the 18th best odds.

Well then go make your money next year betting against the Ravens. They'll be favored early, often, and by a lot. I hope you win.

Talking heads like Wiley want to give Lamar Jackson a pass on his poor playoff performances. I mentioned earlier, or in another thread, that Wiley and Deion Sanders both seem to go out of their way to make excuses for Jackson, and I think it's because of his skin color. Mahomes isn't "black" enough for them, so they support Jackson at all costs.

Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes have each played in 2 postseasons. Mahomes is 3-1 and Jackson is 0-2. And Jackson had the more complete team last year, but couldn't beat the Chargers at home. This year he couldn't beat the Titans at home. His poor play contributed greatly to both losses.

I personally think that Jackson can become a better passer, with better coaching, and that he can be a solid starting QB in this league. I don't feel the need to tear him down, and make disparaging comments about his talent, because his performances in the playoffs say it all.

I thank God, I thank the heavens and stars, and I thank fate and destiny, for delivering Chiefs Kingdom the QB we have deserved for so long. We couldn't have wished for a more perfect QB, or a better person, to be the face of our beloved Chiefs, and to lead this team to a Super Bowl.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

I respectfully disagree. You are either a natural thrower or you are not. Lamar is NOT a natural thrower. He might improve a little bit BUT he will never develop into that NFL caliber throwing QB EVER.

Naturally my frustration with Jackson is with the media, not with Jackson himself. Which is just another reason to pile on the my Everest size pile of reasons I don’t consume much sports media.
Hell man, WE put out a blueprint. We just trying him to the sideline and made him pass out of the option. We couldn’t stop Ingram and still made Jackson look silly. I really think if you don’t try to get up field and make him beat you passing you’re golden.

To me it’s really weird Roman didn’t get a HC job. If I were a team, the ability of Roman to get offensive production from sub-standard passers would be a huge asset.

Well like any big successful industry whatever business your in and especially those at the top, it is very incestuous. What do I mean by that ? Everybody knows everybody and at one point or another and has worked with everybody. And this is especially true in the NFL. Everybody talks. Who knows why he didn't get an interview ? But I assure there is a reason and may not even be football related, who knows?

People are delusional...NFL History hasn't been kind to these wildly inaccurate running quarterbacks. If a quarterback isn't comfortable standing in the pocket, reading a defense, and stepping into a throw they have NO future. Cam Newton, Kaepernick, RGIII and Tebow all had their hype-trains derail after one year of productivity.

Jackson might buck that trend but it's more likely he's a Cam Newton project. The baltimore defense might keep the games close but the defenses in the NFL are too fast and too violent to get worked over by a running back that can't make professional QB throws.

Leave Cam Newton out of it. All told, he's actually had a really good NFL career, certainly more than "one year of productivity".

The dude eclipsed 4,000 passing yards as a rookie for crying out loud.

THIS!!!! It pisses me the **** off. It's like you can't point out Jackson's shortcomings or else you are a ****ing uncle tom or something. That's bullshit. The mofo can't read a defense or throw outside of the numbers. I tell it like it is when it comes to sports. IDGAF what their race is. That light skin dark skin bullshit is irritating. We need to get out of that bullshit.

He had a pretty solid 8 year career considering how physical he is in the running game. Took a ton of huge hits. Generally speaking, I don't think he is anywhere near as accurate as you want your franchise QB to be.

I'd agree, but Cam is one of the few who was just good enough as a passer to make it work. Once you add in the threat of him running, he was a much better QB than average.

Went to see a friends band play last night, he’s from Baltimore area and had a decent amount of Baltimore fans there. I can tell you they all believe in Lamar, and don’t like hearing about him being a running back. “Lamar had a better season than Mahomes” “Lamar is a better quarterback “ I was like are you kidding me? Lamar hasn’t beaten Mahomes or even won a playoff game. Their fan base is delusional. They didn’t like it when I got the bar doing the war cry and chop!!

Was surprised when I looked up Newtons numbers. Besides 2015 he was mediocre (QB-wise) and as a rookie he threw 17 interceptions and had 21 touchdowns. Not good. He's another guy that fell in love with the run instead of developing pocket presence and took some filthy hits.

Cam originated the "**** it, Tyreek's down there somewhere" meme...

Dude was hucking deep ball to Steve Smith left, right and center. He wasn't much of a pure passer, but he had no fear and was willing to just launch it and let Smith go get it.

He didn't really do a lot of 'quarterbacking' in a 'read the defense and run a calculus' sort of thing. Frankly he NEVER really developed that skill set. But he embraced a gamblers mentality and played with his hair on fire.

Ultimately for his career he was a sub-60% passer with a pretty pedestrian Adjusted Y/A so he wasn't making up for low precision through an avalanche of downfield connections. He was Eli Manning with the ability to to run the football. That's valuable, but it's not what I would call a great pure passer.

But he was who you would ultimately hope Jackson could become. A guy who was never a truly good passer but who could threaten all parts of the field. And with his ability to do to that AND run the football, he makes defenses account for a lot.

Jackson simply doesn't threaten enough of the field as a passer. Even if he's a little more precise on the short stuff than Newton is, he's not a credible threat to challenge too many parts of the field so I think his ceiling is lower than Newtons in terms of team success.

No we can't. Just because he made it to a SB doesn't mean he is beyond criticism at the QB position. Actually HE IS the poster boy of the new kid on the block that no one saw or played against in order to prepare for and NEVER PLAYED against an elite defense until the SB against Denver.

Wade Phillips recognized very quickly in his study of Cam that his extreme physical giftedness was smoke screening the fact not only was his throwing very inaccurate but even more importantly he was still very "elementary" in reading coverages, recognizing defenses, not picking up blitzes, not audibling to the correct play, etc.....

Ever since Cam's SB debacle he has never been the same. You would think once he got exposed he would become a student of the game therefore relying less on his athleticism and more on his mind to be more successful while taking less hits to ensure a longer career. But that didn't happen. He went back to the same ol, same ol and when he chose not to become a student of the game, the rest of the league (DCs) caught up with him and figured him out just like Phillips did and continued to take more hits physically.

Cam's problem is his extreme emotionally immaturity(immense NARCISSISM) it's all about him and only giving lip service to the team and fans. Coaches have let him get away with this since he was a kid because of extreme athleticism that still led to wins. You see his "fire in the belly" is about HIM and not about the team or the game. When you are more concerned about your post game fashion presser appearance than you are becoming a student of the game then your lifespan in the NFL as a QB is on borrowed time. Can you imagine Pat being like this ? NO !! Yes Cam had injuries, BUT IMHO he used those injuries as a way to duck out and quit. His "fire in the belly" that was only about HIM finally burned out as well meaning he lost his confidence in himself to take it to the next level because he just didn't want to do the work required.

LOL Dawg, you're tripping. Peyton Manning threw 26 TDs and 28 INTs his rookie year. Matt Ryan 16 TDs and 11 INTs. Matthew Stafford 13 TDs, 20 INTs. Andrew Luck 23 TDs, 18 INTs.

None of those guys threw for 4,000 yards in their rookie year. Cam Newton did. None of those guys added an additional 14 rushing TDs like Cam did either.

Cam Newton came into the league a pretty good passer. He didn't make it a point to focus on elevating his game from the pocket or avoiding big hits which ended up limiting him to just a good NFL career instead of the all-time great career he had the potential to achieve.. but to say he had just one year of good productivity or that his rookie season wasn't good is just asinine.

While Jackson was the most improved QB this season by a mile he's still not a QB that can carry a team with his arm.

That said if he's able to improve as much this offseason as he did last year he's going to be pretty damned good...

Yeah, I would take Newton over a Kirk Cousins for sure.