On a housekeeping note........ should I start the 2020 Cardinals thread or wait until around spring training?

Wait until pitchers and catchers report.

I’d do the birdsontheblack guy deal yesterday.

So what if it's Edman?

Even if the deal doesn't work, I'll be pretty impressed by the balls it would take Mozeliak to try it.

Because 12 months ago, an Edman for Liberatore offer gets you laughed out of the room. And there's a LOT of noise in Edman's ratios (normalize his BABIP and HR/FB rates and his numbers would settle into a figure virtually identical to his AA season in '18).

There's a chance that Edman's found a new normal. There's also a chance that he turns into Adam Frazier going forward and settles into a nice little 2-3 win player for the next several years. If that's who he is, you make that deal.

If he's 80% of what he was last season, he's a 4.5 win player and that's probably too much. If he IS who he was last season that's a 5.5 win player and one of the most valuable young properties in baseball.

So IF that's the deal (and again, I've heard nothing at all to that effect), it takes MAJOR balls by Mozeliak to make it. But you'd almost have to applaud the effort because it's a damn sight better than his usual 'sell low' M.O.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Couple of additions to this story:<br><br>-- Tyler O&#39;Neill has been mentioned trade discussions with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cardinals</a> and teams, including <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rays?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Rays</a>. <br><br>-- Also, John Gant, Cardinals nearing deadline and if no agreement by Friday team does plan to go to arb hearing.<a href="https://t.co/YoYVOXnPr4">https://t.co/YoYVOXnPr4</a></p>&mdash; Derrick S. Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1215403829593812995?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yeah, I think you'd have to.

It leaves us with NOTHING at Catcher in 2 years, but you just have to cross that bridge when you get there, I guess. The other guys in the system look to be solid catch/throw guys but are almost certainly more backup caliber guys than true possible starters. There's a latin kid who's developing a bit of a stick who's name escapes me but he's pretty raw and has a ways to go.

But yeah, if that's the damage, I think you have to do it. It would preclude the Ozuna contract because you're still lugging around Fowler's $16 million, but you still have Bader on hand to maybe peddle to the Mets (who were said to be after him in the Wheeler deal) and maybe get that lefty stick I'd like to get in here.

EDIT: the Catcher I was thinking of was Ivan Herrera. Nice performance in A; stumbled a bit as a 19 yr old in High A but that's not unexpected and he recovered nicely in the AFL. Might be something there, especially if the Cardinals are going to extend Molina for a year or two.

Twitter people are saying they heard Passan on the radio say it sounds like O'Neill, Bader and Woodford.

That's a fair amount to give up but also not bad. If it were 2 of those 3 nobody bats an eye. And when you're sitting at the negotiating table and there's a 4 pitch lefty available who is 6'5'' with a frame to mature into a guy who works in the mid-90s with a wipeout curveball...well, you can't blink over another valuable if flawed player. You kinda have to just swallow hard and pull the trigger.

My complaint with the Cardinals is they always wait too long on moving a guy. Bader's a season away from having marginal trade value if he can't get the breaking ball shit dialed back. O'neill is in the same boat if he can't stay on the field. Woodford's stuff is 5th starter or swingman.

It's the 3 dimes for a quarter deal I say we should be making all the time. The system churns out LOADS of major leaguers who don't move the needle much. If you can swap several of those for a guy with the potential to slot into the 2 spot behind Flaherty for the next 10 years and give you the sort of L/R combo at the top of your rotation that GMs salivate over, you make the deal.

The plot thickens...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The trade between the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rays?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Rays</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> is a big one, involving six pieces, three on each side, sources tell The Athletic. At least two of those pieces are draft picks. LHP Matthew Liberatore, heading to STL, still only known name.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1215416010439888896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Okay - this might be a REAL big deal, gents. Suddenly I'm getting a little worried that Carlson might actually be in play.

Please don't be in play, Dylan.

Yeah, this is what worries me.

I can see it now: Pham back to St. Louis for Carlson. My head explodes

What makes the most sense Lib, Kiermeier, and swapping comp balance picks to St Louis.

Obviously send an outfielder to TB but will need more than that to get it done. Who is the last piece?

Pham’s in San Diego

Passan: The St. Louis Cardinals are trading OF Jose Martinez, OF Randy Arozarena and a Compensation A pick (after 1st round) to the Tampa Bay Rays for LHP prospect Matt Liberatore, a low-level catching prospect and Compensation B pick (post-2nd), sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN.

Seems like a really light return for the Rays, honestly.

Thank Christ that’s all it was. Honestly could be the best move Mo has made.