As others have said, I have zero faith that this will be called correctly and will likely directly impact 2-3 games this season.

this is officially dumbest thing ever.

In the broader sense I would agree but some of the "best players" have been backups that seized an opportunity in the wake of the starter getting seriously hurt.

I'd prefer to watch them play the game.

Guys get hurt, will always get hurt, will never stop getting hurt.

Just play flag football and wear pink jerseys

No shit players try to injure other players. It's a part of the game. Don't like it? Go watch women's volleyball

Sounds like you're the one who needs to find a different sport.

LOL. you sound like a real asshole. To this day, I'm still a defensive homer. I love tough physical football as much as the next person, but there is no place in sports for intentionally trying to injure other players. If that's the kind of football you like, go be a fan of the Raiders or the Harbaughs.

It's the stupidest thing to hear morons say you can't tackle clean and still be physical. Our defense just proved that you can be punishing without being pieces of shit.

Karlaftis is about to be the 2024 version of Taylor on this call. He is gonna get wrongly flagged for this, a lot, if it passes.


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You soft as hell broski. Probably never been in a fight in your life pussy.

I never said players can't tackle clean and still be physical. Obviously the flag football pink jersey comment was a joke.

I don't want players to try and injure other players but it is reality and they can change the rules all they want. That's not going to change..

https://theathletic.com/3635296/2022...injure-player/

Whatever you say. Have a good day

There a plenty of ways to tackle from behind without lifting your legs off the ground and targeting the back of another player's legs with the full force of your body weight. That actually takes more effort than just driving the player into the ground from behind or dragging them down without targeting th back of their legs.

How is it different than Denver's culture of targeting the backs of players legs? Dirty play is for cheaters and undisciplined teams.

Whatever, Bro. I've been in plenty of fights because I can't keep my mouth shut around assholes and bullies. I also started playing football when I was twelve all the way through high school. Never did I have to tackle someone dirty to get the job done.

Injuries are a reality in football, no doubt. But you can't let players intentionally try to hurt other players as a means to an end.

Yes

Some

But usually not. Browning was actually halfway decent but burrow is way more fun to watch. Other qbs like Dobbs and Easton stick were flat out unwatchable

Its proper and good that the model for this cheap shot football is a Bengal defender. Tony Romo loves him some Lou Anarumo who teaches this cheap shit.

You will never get rid of injuries, but you can reduce them.

I think we can mostly agree that players should not play through serious concussions. As long as you enforce that rule the defense gets a huge advantage because they can hit stick a player out of the game. People can get mad about defenseless WR rules all they want but to me it's a cheap way to win games by knocking great players out. And that is only 1 game. Even more important when you lose guys for the whole season or ruin careers.

18 teams last year finished the season with a backup qb starting due to injury.hard to imagine how anyone think that is less of a problem than not seeing a few guys tackle freely

Is this the tackle that gave patrick the high ankle sprain?

Yep it is

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

The last thing we need is another 15 yard penalty with a first down for the refs to use to control the outcome of the game.

You have to go out of your way to tackle someone like that. Just like any penalty, there will be some questionable calls. But that tackle is totally unnecessary. It's a dirty play. If you can't beat them, injure them.

This is my thinking. The first time I remember ever seeing it was when it happened to Mahomes in the Jags game. It's a very unnatural way to try and get somebody on the ground. You have to be making an effort to do that weird shit, which means some asshole coach/coaches caught on to the fact that it leads to injury and started coaching players to do it. **** that and **** them. Make it illegal and start throwing flags on the newest dirty shit that people have discovered.

Or its just a result of all the bullshit rules stacked against the defense that prevents them from doing their job so the players started shifting their weight in different ways to prevent extra yards.

Just make it flag football already.

So can't tackle high even if a offensive player drops his head. Stopped people from tackling up high from behind..can't go low from knee shots or players hurdling. Can't go in to fast.if they are not paying attention or leave your feet.

Now you can't use your weight to bring down a player.

What should a cb do to tackle someone bigger than him?

What about gang tackles? Almost all of them use weight to stop the runner.

Meanwhile, offensive players can stiff arms to the face. Something that really can't be defended and pop a defenders head back. They can chop out legs one on one.

They are going to remove the excitement from the game.

They need to balance rules..

If this passes then players should be down where wrapped up.

Make it flag.

As I have stated before. They would be safer with getting rid of helmets and pads.

Go rugby. Leather small pads and leather helmets.

Whatever. The same method of tackling that has been taught at the youth level for decades is still completely legal and works. This flag football crying bullshit is over-the-top.

That's not accurate. There are plenty of clean ways to tackle. Just look at how elite our defensive backs are when it comes to tackling. No need to employ a tackling technique that seems dubious and less efficient unless the goal is to injure.

Man this thread is amazing. I guess tackling is woke now???

Not my NFL

There won’t be easy fixes for sure. I agree that some of the targeting rules have led to defenders figuring out how to hit stick within the rules. Penalizing one behavior can encourage other behaviors. Maybe that’s a never ending process. I’d like to hope that we can eventually get to a place where defenders are motivated to just tackle the right way. I’m more bothered by the trend of blowing up players instead of wrapping up than I am excited by it.

The NFLPA has chimed in...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Our statement on the swivel hip-drop tackle. <a href="https://t.co/8mzhjtPgKu">pic.twitter.com/8mzhjtPgKu</a></p>&mdash; NFLPA (@NFLPA) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLPA/status/1770559945055916058?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm glad to know the NFLPA cares more about fans not being confused than they do about player safety. So selfless.

Good to see the players take a stance on this. :clap:

As if anyone knew what the **** a "hip drop" tackle was before the competition committee made it hip.

Every year there are thousands of tackles made that aren’t flagged.

I think you’re making a mountain of a molehill here.

ankles

they'll just ban ankle tackles then and then the "wrap your arms around them to tackle"

Funny

https://twitter.com/TheRushWithMaxx/...78477621842075

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The NFL has banned the hip-drop tackle, source said. The Competition Committee was unanimous on it.</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1772275118460309886?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is going to be subjective as hell, but we have Mahomes.

I can’t wait for this to benefit us in a key moment. The tears will be amazing. Hopefully it’s against the Bills.

We should all prepare to be Furious with George.

This is just as big of a development…

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is big: NFL Competition Committee Chairman Rich McKay told me the replay assistant will now be permitted to correct certain types of incorrect calls for roughing the passer and intentional grounding.<br><br>Must be purely objective (QB wasn’t hit in head, was out of pocket, etc.)</p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1772292176904437981?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s the video the NFL just showed in a press conference of what are now banned swivel hip-drop tackles (with NFL executive Jeff Miller speaking in the background). <a href="https://t.co/Y4H8h6pQkW">pic.twitter.com/Y4H8h6pQkW</a></p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1772285073120711025?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Here's the video they showed of what is now considered an illegal tackle.

So if you're in the process of getting tackled you can just try and get your legs in a position so the defender will come down on you..and you get an automatic 15 yards. Okay?

Dude most of those looked completely fine. This shit is beyond ridiculous.

What a got damned ****ing joke! I'm done with this shit after Mahomes hangs it up anyway

anything that keeps mahomes and kelce safer is fine with me

So, when's the merger happen? NFL + AFFL.

https://www.affl.com/

Imagine being a DB and watching that video.

So you're telling me when I launch my little body at Mr. Henry's waist and he trucks me so hard I end up flying around his body while clinging to his ass cheeks for dear life and landing on his legs, I get a 15 yard penalty?

But also imagine being an offensive player and seeing that. I think the video shows that there’s a threat of being over enforced for unintentional hip drop tackles but you also can’t deny that these offensive players bodies are moving very awkwardly. If it does in fact reduce injury it is very worth doing.

So early on you make a bunch of mistakes enforcing the rule but over time defenses will figure out how to tackle differently and refs will find the happy medium.

You can't hit high you can't hit low...where the hell are you supposed to hit?

Some of those tackles . . . well, I ask you, just what are those defenders supposed to do? The ball-carrier is getting past them; are they just supposed to let the guy run by them because they might end up 'drop-tackling' them?


Personally, I'm not a fan of the drop tackle. but we live in an age where everyone on a football field knows the risks and is required to be able to protect themselves, except defensive players.

Defensive players must also protect offensive players, that are doing their level best to make tackling them as hard as possible (for what should be obvious reasons).


Man, I miss the days when nearly (punters/kickers excepted) all players were responsible for their own safety. The double standard, with increasing bias against the defense, is going to eventually kill this game.

It looks overenforced. Need to get with the players union and carve out way more specific guidelines. Hopefully they’re starting broad but will hone down as they realize it’s impossible to overcome. It’s what tends to happen anytime they overemphasize specific rules especially brand new ones

We're gonna get ****ed several times with this call (as will most other teams)

I mean, how do you even enforce something like that looking at those examples?

Yet another 'subjective' call we're going to willingly put in the hands of borderline incompetent officials to call whenever they 'feel' like calling it.

And, of course, it won't be reviewable.


Yea. Another way to piss off fanbases and make game deciding calls on complete B.S. This will end well for the NFL and the fans. :rolleyes:

It looks over enforced because it is over enforced. The NFL obviously wanted more offense/scoring so they began creating all these penalties against the defense, and now, well, here we are.

This isn't some fleeting thing; it's getting worse. And it's significantly effecting how the game is played. We've got QBs being coached to fake slide, then try to take off, putting defenders in an impossible bind, so they hesitate. In a game where hesitation is a sin. JFC, in the last few years we've had how many flags for 'tackling too hard'? People complain about poor tackling and overall defensive play, but conveniently omit the fact that defenses are being asked to not only do their jobs at an NFL level, but also do more to protect offensive players than they do for themselves.

It's freaking stupid.

By January… 13 teams were starting a backup qb. That is a way bigger problem than poor tackling. In fact I’d argue that even with all the rules in place last season was one of the best defense seasons we’ve seen in many years. You don’t like 15 yard flags but I also don’t like seeing guys, especially offensive players and most especially WRs, getting knocked out of games left and right because defenses are hit sticking receivers.

The best thing the nfl can do is to keep great players on the field to the best of their ability. And this is a very big problem for the nfl right now. Soft tackling is WAY better to watch than Blaine gabbert playing for a month or longer.

It's only going to get worse unless the fans come together to tell their owners to vote in the interest of the game of football rather than their own self interest.

All it takes to get a rule change is for a few nerds to deliver a PowerPoint with some graphs that show X play causes injuries every year. Then the owners natural response is "Injuries? Hell I don't like injuries. We had too many of them last year. Let's change the rule damnit!".

NFL gonna be a glorified flag league within 20yrs lol.

I seriously cannot comprehend how routinely losing superstars is in the best interest of the game. Backups in critical positions like qb make for completely unwatchable football.

So, was last season an outlier or the norm? Because just saying that "13 teams were starting backup QBs," without any context isn't very compelling, or at least it shouldn't be.

And how many of those QBs were injured by drop tackles? Just wondering, because I know at least a couple top-tier QBs were injured in no-contact situations.

I get wanting to keep great players on the field, but we've watched things decline to the point where DEs are hugging QBs instead of tackling them. And LBs/DBs are holding up instead of tackling running QBs for fear of drawing yet another idiotic flag (and a hefty fine from the league).

And at the end of the day, football is a violent extremely physical sport and injuries are going to happen. If you're that concerned about largely accidental injuries, maybe we really should just take the pads off and put the flags on and just play little girl football instead.

It's football. People get hurt. You can't prevent injuries in any sport. ****ing baseball has injuries and there is no contact in that.

Yeah, of course you can’t ban everything. But there are specific plays that are more dangerous than others and hip drops are something like 20x more likely to cause injury. Horse collars are rightfully banned. Things like chop blocks, targeting, roughing the passer… as much as we hate their overenforcement, those types of rules by and large are good for the game.

And these injuries have been impactful. We’re talking playoff players like dak, tyreek, pollard, Andrews.

I agree there is a right way to do this. And I’m guessing the league will see that this enforcement is way too broad. The nfl as with all other restrictions that supposedly were going to end the league always finds ways to adapt. Create a clearer and much more limited definition, teach way better tackling technique and adapt from there.

I haven't been paying close attention to this, but I'm a little surprised to see people against banning the tackle type that almost cost us a Super Bowl. It seems like every time this kind of tackle happens the player is getting hurt, so it won't bother me to see them come down on it.

As for the arguments that they're ruining the game by eliminating offense or whatever, that doesn't make a ton of sense to me. The NFL is more popular than ever after two decades of neutering defenses. You can have your 7-6 final score games - I'll take offensive excitement.

You aren’t trying to prevent injury, you are trying to reduce it. And if there are certain injuries that can be signficantly reduced through intervention you explore it. That’s why baseball players wear helmets and pitchers get tossed and suspended for throwing at players heads. That’s why they changed the rules around blocking the plate and base runners trying to take a shortstops knees out.

The folks complaining the loudest never heard of a hip drop tackle until 2022.

If there are recent rule changes that eliminate low blocks outside the tight end box and on kickoff and punt returns that apply to offense and defense, it is natural that landing on the back of a runner's legs can be addressed also. Especially with high profile plays of specific injuries recently.

-Papa CoMoChief circa 2004

Nah, several of the tackles shown as examples of hip drop tackles are just basic tackling and this new rule will just be another tool for the NFL to guide outcomes.

Dak isn't a great QB. He's pretty freaking average. He just plays for a very visible organization. If he was playing for LAC or CAR, no one would give two shits about that guy. Hell, he might be out of the league a long time ago in those situations.

And while I could go on about the way these rules are enforced, the problem is a lot deeper than that, imo.

OL play is pretty mediocre across the league, probably due in large part to the lack of real padded practices/the reduction of preseason games/teams being unwilling to play starters in those preseason games.

And then there's the simple fact that the NFL has been cooking the rules for years now to allow mediocre QBs to be starters. QBs that can't read defensive alignments pre-snap so consequently don't make proper protection adjustments (or just never do it at all), that aren't big enough to play in the NFL, or just throw their receivers into dangerous situations on a weekly basis.

Point being, it's the quality of play that's the bigger issue when it comes to injuries, not how defenders are tackling.

Making it harder for defenses to play isn't going to fix things. Making QBs, receivers and OLs better at their jobs would do more to protect players, imo.

That's not going to happen when you prioritize running fast over reading a defense fast...

Well, that's kind of my point. The game itself is descending into mediocrity, because the league offices value flash and speed and scoring over quality play. Which is how we get QBs like Lamar/Tua/Hurts/whoever getting $200+ million, when in 1980 (or the '90s), they probably wouldn't last more than a couple seasons, because no team would see them as a true elite QBs that could get them to the SB.

Unlikely to effect outcomes much as they plan to enforce through fines, not flags.

I am by no means saying dak is a good qb. But when a teams entire season is flushed down the toilet because of a season ending injury it’s not good for the game. And when guys like Skylar Thompson and josh Johnson and Tyler Huntley and henne play significant playoff minutes that is not good for the game either.

I agree offenses will eventually need to take some responsibility too. But tackling is a very big thing too. I would much rather see DBs for example wrap up, tackle and play the ball versus guys like Cisco who constantly use hit sticking guys as a crutch. Yeah I was way more outraged of defenses routinely knocking juju and Mvs out of games 2 years ago than I was at ever the thought they might stop guys like Cisco from doing it.

Go back to that clip above. Look at :03/:13 seconds just as examples. You're the DB: tell me what the proper way is to tackle that guy in those two examples please. I mean, I only played a couple years in HS, and was never more than a backup/utility player, so you tell me; how is he supposed to tackle those players 'properly' without doing what he did in both cases.

That and the very strong likelihood that they'd be dead, especially Tua.

1) Take a better angle or
2) Slow the player down and wait for help.

I don't think anyone's arguing that this could result in a few extra yards. That's no different than essentially every safety-related change they've made to the game, and yet we're all still watching.

Well, yeah. Especially Tua. Dude is just fragile. Add in the fact that he isn't mobile, can't seem to execute a timing pass with any consistency, is below average throwing outside the numbers . . . he wouldn't have even been good enough to keep as a backup at the time. Probably never gets drafted.

One of those is Sneed, I believe; he's as fast as it gets in the secondary, so 'taking a better angle,' doesn't really fly for me there.

'Slow the player down and wait for help'? Are you serious? Should he try to make small talk then? Ask him out on a date?

Did you watch the video of what they are considering "hip-drop"? It's dumb as hell.

If I’m not mistaken the hip drop tackle isn’t being enforced. It’s more the swivel tackle where they don’t want you landing on the dudes legs. It still seems a bit broad and subjective. But just for context, league said they saw it something like 200 times and about 7% got injured. That is very very high especially when these injuries tend to be very serious.

Again, look at the tape and explain how the defense is supposed to make those tackles?


I mean I get it’s a dangerous tackle. What I don’t get is exactly how the defenders are supposed to make those tackles differently without giving up more yards or possibly even a TD.

NOOOOOOO!!! Hip drop tackles are what made me a fan!

https://youtu.be/5KJ9mCbS3rU?si=078ye8udUjAAh9oT
This is a pretty interesting video looking at it from a rugby perspective. The main theme is just trying to avoid tackles that put lots of pressure on the knees and lower body. Football is of course a different animal but a lot of interesting thoughts here.

Every time I see a guys legs pinned under with upper body twisting I cringe.

But what if Mahomes gets an extra 3 yards instead of getting a high ankle sprain that takes months to heal??? The game will be ruined!!!

This is really helpful actually.