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Megatron96 05-12-2020 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967280)
False:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-ba...cash-earnings/

Tom Brady's Cash Earnings earlier this decade were $12 million, $13 million, $19 million, $13 million, $14 million, $15 million, $15 million and so on. He was a Super Bowl Winning QB during that time and was most certainly taking a discount.



Major League's Player Association is the strongest union in all of sports and has been that way since the 70's and the advent of free agency. Good to great players are traded all the time in order for teams to pay certain superstar players because they don't receive any monetary relief by cutting players due to the fact that all contracts are guaranteed.

If the NBA didn't have a cap, why was Jordan paid $36 million while Pippen, the 2nd best player in the NBA, had to settle for $2 million? It wasn't because the owner couldn't pay him, it's because the owner chose not to pay him and the NBA's Player Association at that time had very little power.



He didn't have to take less money but he could have threatened Reinsdorf, just like he threatened and bullied everyone else around him.

He choose not to, plain and simple.
Name a player in any pro sport that has negotiated another player's contract?

DaneMcCloud 05-12-2020 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 14967430)
So much of a joke that he makes more retired than he did playing and actually has the highest personal wealth of any athlete ever.
I should have specified that I was referring to him running the Wizards and Hornets.

There's no doubt that he's the most famous athlete that ever lived and that he's ridiculously wealthy.

DaneMcCloud 05-12-2020 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 14967470)
Name a player in any pro sport that has negotiated another player's contract?
You're missing the point. Michael Jordan doesn't and didn't give a shit about anyone else but him. Not his teammates. Not his wife. Not anyone.

He was a narcissistic asshole, plain and simple. No one else mattered.

Megatron96 05-12-2020 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967573)
You're missing the point. Michael Jordan doesn't and didn't give a shit about anyone else but him. Not his teammates. Not his wife. Not anyone.

He was a narcissistic asshole, plain and simple. No one else mattered.
But you're saying, or have been saying, that somehow it was Jordan's fault that Pippen wasn't getting paid more than his paltry $2 million. that he should've "stood up for Pippen."

And I saying, why would he do that?

Has anything like that ever happened? Did Bird go to Celtics management and say, "hey I think 'X' should get more money?"

Did Magic intervene for Worthy or whoever?

Did Tom Brady intercede on Moss' behalf at contract time?

Pretty sure the answer is "no."

So why on Earth should Jordan have ever "gone to bat" for Pippen about his contract?

You seem to expect that Jordan should've done something that no other player ever did in the history of pro sports. As much as I always loved Pippen, I never once thought anything but "he ****ed himself." He signed a deal that wasn't in his best interests long-term, even after his own management told him not to take it.

That's on Pippen and Jerrys Krause/Reindorf. Jordan was never a part of that deal.

DaneMcCloud 05-12-2020 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 14967592)
But you're saying, or have been saying, that somehow it was Jordan's fault that Pippen wasn't getting paid more than his paltry $2 million. that he should've "stood up for Pippen."
I never once said it was his "fault", I said he didn't do anything about it, didn't care and was fine with it.

Big difference.

Jordan didn't give a flying **** about anyone but himself.

KurtCobain 05-12-2020 04:48 PM
Jordan could have easily spoken out about Pippin's contract to the media and something would have been done about it.

Megatron96 05-12-2020 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967620)
I never once said it was his "fault", I said he didn't do anything about it, didn't care and was fine with it.

Big difference.

Jordan didn't give a flying **** about anyone but himself.
I think you're reaching here. Jordan wasn't Pippen's keeper.

I get it now, though. You hate Jordan. Whatever.

DaneMcCloud 05-12-2020 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 14967635)
I think you're reaching here. Jordan wasn't Pippen's keeper.

I get it now, though. You hate Jordan. Whatever.
Hate him? I don't hate him. I don't know that man. I was never a fan because I never watched him in the 80's and 90's.

But any outside observer can easily see that if the greatest athlete in the world had spoken up about the absurdity of Pippen's contract, Pippen would have been taken care of, immediately.

The mere fact that you don't understand that simple notion is quite telling about you.

Megatron96 05-12-2020 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967641)
Hate him? I don't hate him. I don't know that man. I was never a fan because I never watched him in the 80's and 90's.

But any outside observer can easily see that if the greatest athlete in the world had spoken up about the absurdity of Pippen's contract, Pippen would have been taken care of, immediately.

The mere fact that you don't understand that simple notion is quite telling about you.
Uh no. Krause and Reinsdorf had a widely known reputation for "if you sign it, you own it. Don't try to renegotiate it later." That's a cast iron fact. So there was never going to be a "oops, let's fix this" moment for Pippen once he signed.

As for Jordan, he wasn't Pippen's daddy. Pippen was a grown-ass man, able to make his own grown-up decisions.

And where does it say that Jordan was even aware of Pippen's contract details before Pippen signed? Did Pippen even discuss his contract with anyone on the team before signing?

But that's all just speculation. The fact is, that Scottie Pippen chose years instead of dollars, because of his childhood. It was a mistake, but it was all his. Jordan, or any elite player doesn't have any obligation to be another player's daddy.
For that matter, if we're going to go down that road, how do we know that Jordan didn't tell Pippen to try and negotiate for a better deal?

Jamie 05-12-2020 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967641)
But any outside observer can easily see that if the greatest athlete in the world had spoken up about the absurdity of Pippen's contract, Pippen would have been taken care of, immediately.
That's just not true. It was a different era, players didn't have the same kind of power they have now. That was the reason Jordan hated Krause to begin with, Krause made moves against Jordan's wishes. Most notably trading Jordan's best friend on the team, Charles Oakley, for Bill Cartwright.

Also it gets forgotten because he was paid so much in the last two years of his Bulls career, but Jordan himself signed a similar shitty long term deal (8 years/25 million) in 1988. In his first comeback season, the 72-10 year, he was still making less than $4 million. If Jordan couldn't even get the Bulls to renegotiate a contract for himself, how was he supposed to make them do it for Pippen?

DaneMcCloud 05-12-2020 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 14967652)
Uh no.
You just can't stand the fact that all Michael Jordan needed to do was say something, anything, to the media or to the Jerry's and Pippen would have been better compensated.

JFC, your hero worship is sickening, especially for a 51 year old man.

DaneMcCloud 05-12-2020 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie (Post 14967756)
That's just not true. It was a different era, players didn't have the same kind of power they have now.


So Jordan, the wealthiest and biggest superstar athlete of any generation to that point, didn't have any power?

LMAO

Even Joe Frazier helped out Muhammed Ali financially.

Megatron96 05-12-2020 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967779)
You just can't stand the fact that all Michael Jordan needed to do was say something, anything, to the media or to the Jerry's and Pippen would have been better compensated.
This is not a fact. This is your opinion.

An opinion with absolutely no basis in fact. The fact is that Krause and Reinsdorf had a long-standing and immutable policy of not renegotiating contacts once they were agreed to. Everyone knew that, not just within the Bulls organization, but the entire NBA as well.

As for your last, I won't deign to make this personal with you. Read any post/thread I've ever written about any player and the results are boringly consistent. I never defend or support any player blindly. Just as I've never been completely negative about a player. I've always been as realistic as possible about every player or coach. Well, except Billy O., who I think is an idiot.

Baby Lee 05-12-2020 06:53 PM
Jordan's job was not philanthropy, it was sports excellence.

Jamie 05-12-2020 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967785)
So Jordan, the wealthiest and biggest superstar athlete of any generation to that point, didn't have any power?

LMAO

Even Joe Frazier helped out Muhammed Ali financially.
So a strawman my argument based off of one line and ignore the supporting points in the rest of the post? Cool.

ChiefsCountry 05-12-2020 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967573)
You're missing the point. Michael Jordan doesn't and didn't give a shit about anyone else but him. Not his teammates. Not his wife. Not anyone.

He was a narcissistic asshole, plain and simple. No one else mattered.
Said it for years, Jordan was lucky he was in the era of the highlight. In the era of social media he would have been destroyed.

DaneMcCloud 05-12-2020 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 14967823)
This is not a fact. This is your opinion
The highest paid athlete and most influential athlete in all of the world had zero influence and power in regards to his GM and owner.

Do you realize how absurd that sounds?

Nirvana58 05-13-2020 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14967912)
The highest paid athlete and most influential athlete in all of the world had zero influence and power in regards to his GM and owner.

Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
Jordan played basketball and didn't get involved and bitch to the media because he was focused on the game. He wasn't trying to be GM like LeBron.

If Jordan had so much power than Phil Jackson would still be the coach after his last season and Jordan would have played another season. Instead the let Phil go and Jordan retired. Players shouldn't get involved in other players contracts. The fact that you call him selfish because of that just sounds like you have an ax to grind.

vailpass 05-13-2020 01:09 PM
MJ was the boss. None of the players on any of those 6 championship teams would have been anywhere near the level of success they achieved without Michael. Including Scotty.
Tough love isn't for everybody but that's the way it is.

DaneMcCloud 05-13-2020 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana58 (Post 14968655)
Jordan played basketball and didn't get involved and bitch to the media because he was focused on the game. He wasn't trying to be GM like LeBron.
Because Jordan didn't give a shit about anyone but himself. He quit on a championship team to play AA baseball yet according to this series, the owner continued to pay him his full NBA salary.

He didn't make any true sacrifices, he just did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, and didn't lose a penny in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana58 (Post 14968655)
If Jordan had so much power than Phil Jackson would still be the coach after his last season and Jordan would have played another season. Instead the let Phil go and Jordan retired.
There's a big difference between standing up for your coach and standing up for teammates. It's pretty clear that Krause wanted to prove that he didn't need Phil Jackson in order to win championships.

Oops...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana58 (Post 14968655)
Players shouldn't get involved in other players contracts. The fact that you call him selfish because of that just sounds like you have an ax to grind.
I couldn't care less about Jordan and the Bulls. They mean absolutely nothing to me, the same as any NBA team of that era or what preceded it.

If you can't see that Jordan is a selfish, narcissistic asshole, that's on you.

007 05-14-2020 07:07 PM
The Last Dance
 
I'm loving reliving all those moments. What a great team to watch.

ChiefsCountry 05-20-2020 07:17 PM
ESPN is playing the Game 6 right now. I forgot how shitty a play by play announcer that Bob Costas was. It sucks Marv Albert got busted for sexual assault. Costas is a pompous ass wipe.

KCUnited 05-21-2020 07:51 AM
Not one No Tippn' Pippen reference. That's probably why that pizza got ****ed with.

neech 05-21-2020 03:03 PM
The title "last dance" sounds like the name of one of those teen movies, I could've came up with something better, just saying.

Megatron96 05-22-2020 04:07 PM
Finished "Last Dance" just now. Great stuff. One of the few shows I know I'm going to re-watch in the near future. And how I miss '90s basketball.

Jenson71 05-22-2020 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 (Post 14971797)
I'll loving reliving all those moments. What a great team to watch.
My earliest sports memories are watching Marcus Allen goal line touchdown leaps and watching the Bulls-Jazz series. Jordan's impact on the childhoods of my generation was monumental. Our earliest memories of television are seeing his Gatorade and shoe commercials. Perhaps our first live-action movie in theaters was Space Jam. We watched with our fathers the games he played. We spent our allowance money on getting his basketball cards. We begged our parents for Jordans. The only place we couldn't find Jordan's presence in our lives was the NBA Jam video game.

Baby Lee 07-09-2020 07:44 PM
How did this not get a segment

<iframe width="772" height="579" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YVZCJgfLjFU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MarkDavis'Haircut 01-20-2022 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14965889)
Back in the 80's and 90's, I wasn't into college or NBA basketball, other than being a casual observer, until maybe Jordan's final season with the Bulls. The only thing I knew about him, other than quitting the Bulls for AA ball, was that he was biggest sports star in the world, with his face absolutely everywhere.

From an outsider's point of view, it's an interesting look into "greatness" and after watching 8 episodes, he's not unlike people in other categories of fame, whether it's the "greatest" actor in the world or the "greatest" singer or guitarist in the world - they're all pretty much what I would consider, assholes.

For whatever reason, our society frowns upon everyday people acting like assholes but if you're "great" at or in something, it's waved off. It's an interesting phenomena...
As Catherine the Great said "winners can't be judged."

I don't agree with it. There have been great people who aren't assholes but in today's world, as long as you win you can get away with anything.


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