Why the **** is Gronk at a 95.... Dude wasn't a 95 for years and has now been out for a year.

There’s only two guys you can place above him. And they did.

Bullshit. Ertz, Andrews, and Cook are all better at this point. Hell I'd even take Waller over Gronk.

SB rings:

Kittle 0 Kelce 1

3rd in receiving yards in the league. Also great hands:

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Dude is amazing

No doubt who the greatest playing the game is

On top of all that, he's never really focused in the gameplan. Obviously we are trying to run the ball and get the ball outside.

Most of SF's pass attack (before Kittle went down) went through him.

Theres only one thing I don’t like about Kelces game. Sometimes he will catch a pass over the middle, then sort of run sideways instead of driving upfield for more yards.

It’s a minor quibble though.

Kittle gets injured so much that Jordan Reed calls him a glass vagina'd bitch.

Keep him, San Fran. I'll take Kelce.

I can’t believe anyone would be dumb enough to suggest kittle is better.

I’d bet if you looked at the net yards he’s gained from that strategy, it’s probably more than he’d gain from plowing into a dude.

He’s ****ed up a lot of dudes angles and got big gains out of it

This is correct. Honestly, though, I’d prefer he go down and avoid the hits. I’d rather dude play forever, but he’s not going to stop being who he is.

A better argument is: Kelce or Tony Gonzalez. Who’s better? I’m taking Kelce.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/jXFYbdro2jTTa/giphy.gif

Great hands both of them, it's a wash. After the catch Kelce is the guy.

I laugh every time I see it and it was right on

One will be back with a vengeance while another will be back to repeat as a world champion.

I would take Kittle after Kelce retires.

By that time, Kittle may be irreparably damaged.

He's 27 years old and may not even make it to age 31 in the NFL.

If he does, which is no guarantee, there's no telling how effective he'll be after multiple knee patella sprains and surgery to repair them.

That’s the thing about kelce he’s never out with injury

Kelce is a straight-up baller. My 8 year old son’s favorite player, too.

I catch myself taking him for granted, then the 2nd string turd flushes onto the field......

Christ. That’s what happened to his knee? I thought it was an ACL.

Remember when an injured Kelce still decided to play the Texans playoff game and shredded the Texans secondary when we were down 24-0?

Legendary.

In the past two years alone, he's had the patella injury to his knee, an A/C joint shoulder separation and a bad ankle sprain.

Now, he's out for probably the rest of the season with a fractured foot - the same foot in which he had the ankle sprain.

Apparently, it's not as bad as a Jones fracture but it's still pretty bad.

Maybe he'll get over all of this and play for another 5+ years but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.

Oh yeah. Broken foot this time.

I got tendinitis in my patellar tendon once. I can’t imagine spraining it.

Not really. Kelce shows up in the playoffs.

Kelce would do as great on those past teams if not better being the sole receiving threat.

I love Kittle and think he's a great player. Lots of heart. But he's #2.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/q5FMcYW09xRSg/giphy.gif

That’s all he has to do.

So, yeah. Look at these career stats, because it's not even close. Like I said in my post, I love Travis Kelce, but TG is so far above him it's not even close. There are only 2 players in the history of the NFL that caught more passes than Tony Gonzalez, and those are wide receivers Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald.

People who believe that Kelce is better than TG are welcome to their opinion, but the stats say otherwise, and in my opinion, there is no rational argument to be made for Travis being better than Tony.

Tony Gonzalez
1325 receptions
15,127 yards
111 Touchdowns
14 Pro Bowls
6 Time First Team All-Pro

Travis Kelce
565 receptions
7,234 yards
43 touchdowns
5 Pro Bowls
2 Times First Team All-Pro

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I think if you are going to compare them, compare the same number of years. Tony Gonzalez has played for more than twice the years than Kelce. I Think Kelce will have way better stats when he has been in the league as long as Gonzo (Especially with Mahomes pitching him the rock).

Looking at 'like' stats: (Kelce has been in the league for eight years including this year so I am only going to look at Gonzalez's first eight years. These numbers include playoffs as well)

Gonzalez:
Receptions: 600
Yards: 7191
TDs: 58

Kelce:
Receptions: 617
Yards: 7866
TDs: 49
Superbowls: 1


Gonzo still had more TDs, but Kelce killed him in yardage. Kelce also has a Superbowl ring.

When people use the word "ever" you have to look at the totality of a players career.

If you choose to compare the players through the same number of games, you can't say best ever. You can say player z has been better than player y through x number of games.

Or you can say player z is on pace to surpass player y's career stats, or that player z is on pace to become the best ever.

But using the comparison through the same number of games has no correlation to who is actually the best player at that position in NFL history.

Right now all those stats I listed for TG are FACTS.

Projecting Kelce's stats based on his current pace, times the length of Gonzalez's career, is just SPECULATION

I would love for Kelce to play as long as TG did, and I would love to crown Kelce the best ever when he retires, and when that time comes, hopefully he will have been a Kansas City Chief his entire career.

TG didn't actually have to retire, because he was still an effective tight end, and he had developed a great off-season plan for taking care of his body. Right now, Kelce's off-season plan consists of a lot of partying. And Kelce is going to make a lot more money that TG ever did, so he may not have the desire or need to play as long as Tony did.

Tony Gonzalez is the best tight end in the history of the NFL. I hope we can say that about Kelce in the future. And as a side note, those people who believe Gronk is the best ever can just FO.

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Travis is a few years older than Tony, relatively speaking, so it's very unlikely he'll play for as long as Tony did, but here are their statistics at this point in their respective careers:

127 games played
570 receptions
6915 yards
54 TD

105 games played
565 receptions
7234 yards
44 TD

(Games played discrepancy: Travis played only one game his rookie season, and obviously has 7 more to play this year.)

You say this:And then you say this:That sounds an awful lot like speculation. Unless I miss my guess and you're a close personal friend of both of them and have direct evidence of both statements.

Looking back over the last few pages, I don't see anyone actually arguing that Kelce is the best tight end ever. I see a couple of comments saying that he could be after a few more years. But none saying that he is.

What I do see is people saying Kelce is better than Gonzalez at this point in their career. Which is pretty easy to argue statistically.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anyone saying Kelce is the best ever at the position. So I'm kind of left wondering why you're arguing so vehemently against a point that nobody seems to be making.

No, you are correct. I was speculating that TG could have piled onto his already ridiculous stats, but I didn't speculate about what is actual stats are.

The stats I listed are facts. They don't include speculation, or require a formula to calculate. They are concrete, tangible, facts.

I am not bashing Kelce. I freaking love Travis as a player, and I love how he and Mahomes are so linked and in sync with each other. But no matter how awesome I think he is, he is not the best tight end ever.

Some people in the thread were already crowning him as the GOAT, and I can't agree with that.

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Maybe I was wrong. I thought some had said best ever. If that isn't the case, my bad.

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I never said that he was the best, I was simply pointing out that in my opinion it makes more sense to compare them more on a like nmumber of games played as Gonzo played for more than twice as long as Kelce has been in the league.

I love them both, hell, my first Chiefs jersey was a Gonzalez jersey. I still think that Kelce will end up being statistically better when all is said an done. Yes, that is speculation.

This is a stupid argument...

Appreciate the fact that this organization has had multiple great TEs over the years, no need to have a pissing contest over which one was best

Kelce is playing during the golden age of Chiefs history.


Gonzalez played during an era I am happy to forget.

The only one that matters to me is the one wearing a KC SB ring.

I want Kelce to end his career as a member of the Kansas City Chiefs, and I hope we can call him the best ever when he retires.

Pioli and Haley were egomaniacs who attacked Tony Gonzalez and Brian Waters, two All-Pro players, when they requested to meet with the new GM and Head Coach.

I believe that's where the infamous insult, or boast, came from when those pieces of [emoji90] said that they could win 2 games with 22 players off the streets.

Tony should have played his entire career in KC. I am hoping that Veach and Reid can keep Kelce here until he retires.

As far as comparing stats between the two after X amount of games, Kelce should be ahead of Tony's pace. Kelce has played his entire career with a Hall of Fame head coach who really doesn't like to run the ball. And he is in his 3rd season with Mahomes as his starting QB.

As a Chief, Gonzalez caught passes from Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon, and Todd Collins, in an offensive system that was based on the running game.

Then he spent a few years with Trent Green, before catching passes from Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, and finally Tyler FN Thigpen. L

Kelce played with Alex Smith, who uses tight ends as emotional support receivers, in an Andy Reid offensive system that gave Smith an excuse to make Kelce his first read on every pass play.

And now Kelce is playing with the best QB certainly in Chiefs history, and possibly in NFL history.

So, comparing stats through the same amount of games should favor Kelce. Tony Gonzalez was on with Cowherd, and said he believes that if he had played under Andy Reid and with Patrick Mahomes, he would have set records that would probably never be broken.

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I can agree with that. I have no doubts that if Gonzo had Mahomes as his QB, his numbers would be obscene, and he would probably hold some unbreakable records.

They are both awesome TEs though. The Chiefs have been lucky to have had both.

No sweat Travis. Kittle sweats like a whore. A good whore, but a whore just the same

Another tight end from the past I would love to have on our team right now is Jason Dunn. He was 6' 7" and had to be close to 280, had a very long wingspan, and he was like having another offensive lineman out there, plus he could catch the ball when needed.

He is the best blocking TE I have ever seen.

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Same here. Tony was great maybe the greatest ever but it's debatable. To me and I could be totally off but I always felt Tony was glaringly absent in big games. Now may have been the supporting cast with the good teams taking the TE away and his teammates didn't step up. I can only imagine what a Mahomes could have done with TG. I think it would look a lot like what we see with PM and TK.

Yup and his best seasons were under Vermiel where even that offense probably wasnt the best fit for him. I think had he been here during the Alex years he might have put up a 130 receptions season.

Travis Kelce is the only player on the Chiefs roster that I think is irreplaceable. Tyreek is a close second, but I think Travis helps Patrick as much as Patrick helps him. I mean they are almost unstoppable. And in the handful of games where Kelce isn't a huge factor the Chiefs offense really labors.

The only player?

I can think of one more pretty important dude that we’ve waited 50 years for.

Colquitt was cut and the team has been fine without him.

The greatest ever offered to pay the next greatest ever's goal post dunk fine.

Kittle = faster, better blocker (at line and downfield)
Kelce = bigger, uses body better to get position, healthier

You're happy if you have either, but keep in mind that Kittle has made his mark receiving passes from Brian Hoyer, CJ Beathard, Nick Mullens and JG. Kelce has had all world Mahomes and TE-dependent Alex Smith. I shudder to think what kind of numbers kittle would put up if he were on KC....if he stayed healthy.

I want to see Kelce retire with all the TE records and 7 SB rings.

seems like that was settled a year ago....

Kittle is not a better TE

And he is a turd of a person.

False narrative

You could be right, but everyone who grades them, grades Kittle out higher. I've seen Kittle pancake DEs, and then make crushing downfield blocks in DBs to spring big gains for RBs. His strength/agility/technique/dedication to blocking are hard to match.

Not really. At least until the past 16 games or so going to mid-season last season.

Kelce has stepped up his blocking game considerably over the last year and narrowed that gap to almost nothing but prior to that, there was definitely a gap.

Kittle makes a couple highlight reel OMG BIIIIIG PANCAKE SO AWESOME!!!!!! blocks but then ****s up his blocks in the Super Bowl.

ACE BLOCKING TE!

Lot's of narratives in that SB... I remember "JG missed a wide open Kittle" and "OPI call against Kittle was terrible"! Kittle missed his blocks" ... not so much.

Dude does seem to get injured alot.

As of last Sunday he was 3rd in receiving yards among every receiver.

He’s also got 24 receptions of 15+ yards. No other TE has more than 13.

He’s truly kicking serious ass this year. This should shatter any doubt that the guy is a HOF.

There was doubt?

Mathematically (according to the HOF 'algorithm'), Kelce still has a chunk of work to do. And according to some CPers, he's already an old man, so the likelihood that Kelce posts enough numbers to be a legitimate HOFer before he crashes and burns due to being 31+ years old is unlikely.

Well, people seem to think Gronk is going to be a Hall of famer

And an argument could be made that Kelce has had a better career to this point.

Kelce will probably surpass him in yardage. Not sure about TDs.

Gronk will be a HOFer, IMO. He has a solid percentage of the necessary stats, he has the hardware, and he passes the eye test with ease.

Personally, I believe that Kelce is a HOFer right now, and the 'algorithm' can go get stuffed. But since joining CP a couple years ago I've heard the "Kelce is getting old," and the "Kelce doesn't have the numbers," argument more than I've hard the "Kelce is a HOFer," argument on CP.

But I honestly don't know how much weight the HOF gives the stats exactly.

I love how Kelce just goes to work and shuts people up every single year.

The NFL has done the Chiefs a great favor in trying to hype the next great QB in Lamar and the best TE EVER, Kittle (who I love since he was a Hawkeye). The Chiefs are dangerous because they always have a chip on their shoulders. People seem to always look for the flaw, whether its the defense, out 4th WR, or whatever.

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Disagree. Tony was the only receiving crutch for a decade almost for the chiefs and their qbs. He was force feed the ball. Both would have performed well. Mahomes spreads the ball around.

Tony is great and currently the best te ever. But hopefully at this pace kelce supplants him. But one thing kelce is better at and a fact. He shows up in playoff games and catches the tough passes. Only 1win in seven tries and his stats were average for gonzo.

Kittle is really kind of a bitch for real. The stuff last year before the SB where he talked about being picked on by two Chiefs players in college. There was something else he was whining about this year, but I can't remember what it was.

May not make him a turd person, but he's a whiney bitch.

People say Kelce is getting old because when he takes big hits he gets up a little slow and kind of trots instead of runs back to the huddle. And then occasionally (it's only been 1-2 times per year) he gets a leg ding and has to miss a little time during games.

Guess what? That's football. Shit ****ing happens. At this same point in his career, was Gronk playing 16 games per season?

Oh. He wasn't, was he?

That was a joke. He's probably friends with Ben Niemann going back to his Iowa days and said it just to rib him. Kind of like when Mahomes and Dieter had that fake feud they kept bringing up during press conferences.

Yeah, gronk should be a hof also. As stated numerous times. If kelce can pull off 4 or 5 more years he is a shoe in.

If he sets any records for season marks for a te and plays less, I think he also has a good shot. Him like gronk if they do well and keep winning championships can do the same thing.

The only thing I can think of that makes him quit early is he wins 2more championships and decides to retire early and do his fashion business more.

Most mediocre/bad QBs force feed the TE. Kittle has had 2 good seasons and people saying he's better than Kelce is absurd.

I just watched Kelce in Moonbase 8.

They already killed him off.

This is bullshit. Kelce was like 1-4 in the postseason before Mahomes came. Give Gonzalez a Mahomes and his playoff record would also look a hell of a lot better.

TG with Alex Smith for most of his career probably would've amassed at least another 5,000 yards receiving.

Gronk also had a cast on his arm and would do elbow drops on DBs that intercepted his boyfriend Tom Brady.