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-   -   Chiefs Threat Level Midnight: the Hitchens problem is getting worse. (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=333771)

DJ's left nut 09-23-2020 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 15187874)
We can cut him next year. We're not going to get much cap relief, but we also won't take a hit.
At some point you have to bite the bullet.

I'd have tried hard to do it this year but without camp I understand why they didn't.

Next year his base actually drops to $5.8 million so you might be able to stomach that. If not, you can post June 1 him and save about $6.5 million (with about $4.4 million in dead money the following year).

htismaqe 09-23-2020 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15187884)
Yeah - they're both really bad but I'd say Wilson's fallen further from his 2019 performance than Hitchens - in part because Wilson played better than Hitchens in 2019, IMO.
Yep.

It's also interesting that they didn't try to clearly upgrade Hitchens or Niemann but brought in a guy in Gay that actually will play Wilson's position.

htismaqe 09-23-2020 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlphg9 (Post 15187886)
I get there was no preseason, but its not like Hitchens is in his first few seasons. This is his 7th season in the league. Missing a few snaps of preseason shouldn't be causing him to play this shitty. Hell we got a rookie CB, 2nd year CB that look 10x better than not just him, but all of the starting LBs.

These LBs are so bad at stopping the run and defending the pass. On the Chargers 6th play. It was a read option. Its ran to Frank Clarks side and Ben Neiman is the OLB. They send Neiman on a blitz and Hitchens is supposed to be flowing over to take Neiman's outside responsibility. Hitchens isn't touched and is making his way over to the outside edge while Frank Clark has Herbert completely contained and is untouched. If Hitchens keeps making his way over to where he is supposed to be and covers the RB Kelley on that option then that play is completely blown up. Instead Hitchens isn't taking care of his responsibility and makes a move towards Herbert and Herbert sees Hitchens make his move up and tosses it to Kelley, then Hitchens makes the tackle 6 yards down the field.

This shit is always happening and our LBs need to pull their heads out of their asses and maintain their responsibilities. You are taught in ****ing middle school how to defend the option and Hitchens doesn't play it right. Its so frustrating to watch cuz if he follows his fundamentals whatsoever, then its 2nd and 12-13 or maybe he fumbles.
For whatever reason, they're not trusting each other. It's the same thing that happened to the DB's on the corner TD pass by Herbert.

It looks just like last year at this time when they were running all over the place instead of just playing their spots.

htismaqe 09-23-2020 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15187887)
At some point you have to bite the bullet.

I'd have tried hard to do it this year but without camp I understand why they didn't.

Next year his base actually drops to $5.8 million so you might be able to stomach that. If not, you can post June 1 him and save about $6.5 million (with about $4.4 million in dead money the following year).
The damn contract is the worst part of it, unfortunately

DJ's left nut 09-23-2020 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 15187895)
The damn contract is the worst part of it, unfortunately
Yes and no.

Weirdly, Veach was pretty far ahead of the curve for the price-tags on off-ball linebackers. They jumped exponentially almost immediately after Hitchens deal. There was some potential for that to actually be a really nice contract for the team with some surplus value there.

And even where it is, if he could just be an average player, the contract wouldn't be a real boat anchor.

The bar for that contract to be fairly forgettable isn't really THAT high, especially since the structure made the first two years quite cheap (so forward paying a bit on the deal through the rollovers). When you consider the cap credits created through rollovers rather than any individual cap year, his average cap hit over the first 4 years will be right at $8 million.

That's a little high for an average off-ball backer, but it's not something we'd care about if the guy was playing at, say, Marvcus Patton's level.

The contract isn't REALLY the problem - the damn level of performance is. He just absolutely HAS to be better than this.

dlphg9 09-23-2020 09:48 AM
What drives me crazy is Willie Gay Jr. is riding the bench because he is "raw" and needs to learn, but watching the All 22 makes me question if any of the veteran LBs know what the **** they are doing. There really isn't any harm playing him for like 10-15 snaps a game. I ****ing hate that it seems like the reason Hitchens is playing because of his contract. Because he is not a good LB.

ThaVirus 09-23-2020 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlphg9 (Post 15187941)
What drives me crazy is Willie Gay Jr. is riding the bench because he is "raw" and needs to learn, but watching the All 22 makes me question if any of the veteran LBs know what the **** they are doing. There really isn't any harm playing him for like 10-15 snaps a game. I ****ing hate that it seems like the reason Hitchens is playing because of his contract. Because he is not a good LB.
It's impossible to know what Spags is thinking, but I'd bet he's most miffed by the missed tackles. We've consistently seen our guys in great position to make the stop, only to whiff or just bounce off the ball carrier. If we can get these guys to tackle properly, we'll instantly look a lot better. If you throw Gay in there and he's not ready, you risk having him blow assignments and miss tackles.

RealSNR 09-23-2020 09:58 AM
Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year? On defense, not on special teams, that is. A tackle for loss? A QB pressure? A pass knocked away? How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

The lack of big plays aren't even it. It's just the complete lack of execution in the basic stuff. Ekeler is an underrated RB and can be slippery and hard to bring down, but come freaking on.

If they were messing up the simple stuff but occasionally chipping in a big play of some sort, that would be one thing. But they're not. Like, at all.

DJ's left nut 09-23-2020 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlphg9 (Post 15187941)
What drives me crazy is Willie Gay Jr. is riding the bench because he is "raw" and needs to learn, but watching the All 22 makes me question if any of the veteran LBs know what the **** they are doing. There really isn't any harm playing him for like 10-15 snaps a game. I ****ing hate that it seems like the reason Hitchens is playing because of his contract. Because he is not a good LB.
The problem is that Hitchens rounded into form last year.

He was never great, but over the latter half he played pretty much exactly to that 'average, credible off-ball linebacker' level that I think we'd all pretty much find acceptable. Obviously not ideal, but tolerable.

So the staff doesn't want to bury him and prevent him from finding that form again.

And last week's game was so nip/tuck the whole way that any trial by fire could've proven disastrous had Gay just completely shit the bed on an assignment.

I get why the situation is what it is right now, but Hitchens can't have infinite rope, nor can Wilson. At some point those guys have to start playing better or we have to go get a veteran FA who can be in meetings for 4-5 weeks and maybe step in over the latter half of the season to replace one of these guys.

DJ's left nut 09-23-2020 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 15187957)
Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year? On defense, not on special teams, that is. A tackle for loss? A QB pressure? A pass knocked away? How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

The lack of big plays aren't even it. It's just the complete lack of execution in the basic stuff. Ekeler is an underrated RB and can be slippery and hard to bring down, but come freaking on.

If they were messing up the simple stuff but occasionally chipping in a big play of some sort, that would be one thing. But they're not. Like, at all.
DoD had a nice delayed blitz for a sack.

But among the starters, I can't recall anything.

Skyy God 09-23-2020 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 15187957)
Have any of our LBs made a single big play all year? On defense, not on special teams, that is. A tackle for loss? A QB pressure? A pass knocked away? How about just a solid, square, open field tackle?

The lack of big plays aren't even it. It's just the complete lack of execution in the basic stuff. Ekeler is an underrated RB and can be slippery and hard to bring down, but come freaking on.

If they were messing up the simple stuff but occasionally chipping in a big play of some sort, that would be one thing. But they're not. Like, at all.
DOD notched a sack against the Texans.

Chris Meck 09-23-2020 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 15187892)
Yep.

It's also interesting that they didn't try to clearly upgrade Hitchens or Niemann but brought in a guy in Gay that actually will play Wilson's position.
I think that plan was because it would be easier to get him in the lineup. Responsibiities being simpler than at Mike.

RINGLEADER 09-23-2020 10:13 AM
Wish we had gotten Queen but what can you do?

On the other hand we’ve held opponents to 20 both games. We do that all year and chances are better than not that we’ll be 16-0.

Chief Northman 09-23-2020 10:13 AM
Don't care if I get ripped - Matt House might not be all he's cracked up to be.

The read/react from this group is horrible. They don't read keys consistently and are often flat-footed far too long after any given snap. The poor tackling is one thing, but it is evident that part of the mental game is missing and this is showing up with slow/late reactions and bad angles/shortcuts being taken in pursuit. Block defend is also bad from this group. I get it is early, but some of this is just poor fundamental football.

htismaqe 09-23-2020 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Northman (Post 15187986)
Don't care if I get ripped - Matt House might not be all he's cracked up to be.

The read/react from this group is horrible. They don't read keys consistently and are often flat-footed far too long after any given snap. The poor tackling is one thing, but it is evident that part of the mental game is missing and this is showing up with slow/late reactions and bad angles/shortcuts being taken in pursuit. Block defend is also bad from this group. I get it is early, but some of this is just poor fundamental football.
Yep.


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