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staylor26 02-05-2024 09:48 AM

Going to be hilarious if Franklin makes it into the mid 20s and the Chiefs trade in front of the Bills to get him.

kccrow 02-05-2024 11:03 AM

The guy I was on early last year was Rashee Rice. I switched gears to Jalin Hyatt later on. I'm not making that mistake again. It's been Franklin, I'm sticking with him to the bitter ****ing end. LOL.

Couch-Potato 02-05-2024 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 17383438)
The guy I was on early last year was Rashee Rice. I switched gears to Jalin Hyatt later on. I'm not making that mistake again. It's been Franklin, I'm sticking with him to the bitter ****ing end. LOL.

Pretty sure you turned the whole board onto Franklin.

He's pretty much the unanimous target now lol.

Couch-Potato 02-05-2024 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17383307)
Going to be hilarious if Franklin makes it into the mid 20s and the Chiefs trade in front of the Bills to get him.

THIS is what I'm hoping for also.

duncan_idaho 02-05-2024 11:51 AM

Oh, I would laugh so much if we get another video of the Bills’ war room reacting to the Chiefs trading in front of them again… to take the guy who is clearly the best fit for both teams at a key area of need.

I mean, say that plays out for Franklin this year.

Who is the Kair Elam version of WR in this draft? Xavier Legette?

JPH83 02-05-2024 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17383307)
Going to be hilarious if Franklin makes it into the mid 20s and the Chiefs trade in front of the Bills to get him.

This is exactly what I was thinking, would be glorious. I've been pretty set on getting him, but to be honest I'm more and more relaxed about taking a few different routes. Any of the following works for me.

- Trade up ahead of the Bills for Franklin, call it good.
- Stay at 32 and get a traits guy like Legette, Mitchell or Walker (maybe) and double dip R4-5 with a guy like Malik Washington
- Move back and get one of the next tier in Wilson, Pearsall or Burton and again, double dip later.

We may not hit a home run and get a 1,000 yard rookie, but there's a lot of ways we end up better at WR.

JPH83 02-05-2024 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 17383438)
The guy I was on early last year was Rashee Rice. I switched gears to Jalin Hyatt later on. I'm not making that mistake again. It's been Franklin, I'm sticking with him to the bitter ****ing end. LOL.

And I'll be there with you

Nightfyre 02-05-2024 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17383464)
Pretty sure you turned the whole board onto Franklin.

He's pretty much the unanimous target now lol.

I'm out on Franklin personally. For much of the same reasons I was out on Hyatt last year.i would bet, barring an exceptional combine, Franklin falls out of the top 50 this year.

Palangi 02-05-2024 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 17383438)
The guy I was on early last year was Rashee Rice. I switched gears to Jalin Hyatt later on. I'm not making that mistake again. It's been Franklin, I'm sticking with him to the bitter ****ing end. LOL.

I’m with you. I’ve been very high on Franklin from the beginning too. I’ve been mocking him to the chiefs for months now.

Couch-Potato 02-05-2024 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 17384170)
I'm out on Franklin personally. For much of the same reasons I was out on Hyatt last year.i would bet, barring an exceptional combine, Franklin falls out of the top 50 this year.

Whoa! Hot take!

Buuuuuut he's not alone, Jeremiah and 1 or 2 others I've seen have Franklin going in the 2nd. Many others have him going at the very bottom of first, typically to us or the Bills. CP has fallen in love with him a bit and projects him to rise in the draft post combine, but we might be forgetting that Oregon's offenses gets a similar asterisk to TEN offenses... don't they? I'm not 100% sure, again, I'm not a college football fan just a draft junkie.

Couch-Potato 02-05-2024 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 17384170)
I'm out on Franklin personally. For much of the same reasons I was out on Hyatt last year.i would bet, barring an exceptional combine, Franklin falls out of the top 50 this year.

For me it's Adonai Mitchell, he just looks too slow on tape to me. There's not enough spark in his game to get me excited enough to take him in the 1st and I don't think he fits our play style at all.

O.city 02-06-2024 08:11 AM

He is a similar type player to Hyatt.....I dunno fellas.

Nightfyre 02-06-2024 08:35 AM

The primary flaw is the lack of lateral agility on tape. Granted, you can take my opinion with a mountain of salt, as I am still focused on the NFL and haven't watched much of his non highlight stuff and haven't watched much of the rest of the class yet. Fast is good, but agility and acceleration makes for a player with a better route tree and separation in the NFL, imo. I have Legette higher at first blush for this reason. His ability to change speed to create separation will result in more productivity, imo

O.city 02-06-2024 08:39 AM

I didn't think Legette showed his agility very well at the SR bowl from the clips I watched though.

I dunno. I'm just not blown away by any of the WR's we're gonna be in a spot for.

duncan_idaho 02-06-2024 08:47 AM

Franklin seems a lot more quick-twitch to me.

If you're looking to be blown away by acceleration and twitchiness, you should be watching Roman Wilson. There's some strong DeSean Jackson vibes there.

If the Chiefs add a good veteran or two to the room from FA, I could be OK with Wilson as the top guy they add in the draft. Same with Burton.

Couch-Potato 02-06-2024 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17384884)
I didn't think Legette showed his agility very well at the SR bowl from the clips I watched though.

I dunno. I'm just not blown away by any of the WR's we're gonna be in a spot for.

Woulda been nice if he'd made a standout play at the Sr Bowl.

Couch-Potato 02-06-2024 09:37 AM

What's the deal with Malik Washington? Sounds like a great fit at the slot in maybe the 3rd or 4th but I haven't seen his name come up around here?

Spoiler!

DJ's left nut 02-06-2024 10:16 AM

I'm completely out on any WRs below 5'11'' unless they're Tyreek Hill level athletes. You can thank Skyy Moore for that.

Malik Washington isn't anywhere near the athlete Hill is. He's probably not even quite the athlete Moore was.

I mean that is damn near a carbon copy of Skyy Moore's scouting report. Right down to the "This WR breaks tackles" as a feather in his cap. Fellas, that's like saying that the napkins are folded really well at a restaurant. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find positives for a player.

Nah - I don't even think I'd bother with Washington on Day 3. I've seen enough of those guys. When your upside is "he might be Richie James someday" then I really have little use for you.

O.city 02-06-2024 10:18 AM

I'm in the 5"11-6"2 range for a WR. Anything outside of that is just gotta be an outlier athletically.

DJ's left nut 02-06-2024 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17385050)
I'm in the 5"11-6"2 range for a WR. Anything outside of that is just gotta be an outlier athletically.

6'1'' and about 195 lbs is pretty much the prototype for WRs I tend to prefer.

Outside of your range, you're looking at unicorns. Taller than that and you're looking at guys like Julio Jones and Megatron - planet sized human beings that don't move like it. Or one-trick ponies like Evans. Shorter than that and you need Tyreek Hill or Antonio Brown. Hill is lightning and Brown was just about a perfect technical WR.

There are exceptions here and there, but I wouldn't be inclined to gamble on them heavily.

Couch-Potato 02-06-2024 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17384318)
Whoa! Hot take!

Buuuuuut he's not alone, Jeremiah and 1 or 2 others I've seen have Franklin going in the 2nd. Many others have him going at the very bottom of first, typically to us or the Bills. CP has fallen in love with him a bit and projects him to rise in the draft post combine, but we might be forgetting that Oregon's offenses gets a similar asterisk to TEN offenses... don't they? I'm not 100% sure, again, I'm not a college football fan just a draft junkie.

Ok, wait. Looking for additional opinions on this.

Does the league view Oregon's offense the same way they do TEN?

Are we too high on Franklin based on some gimmick offense?

JPH83 02-06-2024 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17385048)
I'm completely out on any WRs below 5'11'' unless they're Tyreek Hill level athletes. You can thank Skyy Moore for that.

Malik Washington isn't anywhere near the athlete Hill is. He's probably not even quite the athlete Moore was.

I mean that is damn near a carbon copy of Skyy Moore's scouting report. Right down to the "This WR breaks tackles" as a feather in his cap. Fellas, that's like saying that the napkins are folded really well at a restaurant. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find positives for a player.

Nah - I don't even think I'd bother with Washington on Day 3. I've seen enough of those guys. When your upside is "he might be Richie James someday" then I really have little use for you.

Washington separates, that's the difference. There's not all the wasted motion at the release. I like him from R4-5 quite a bit. With the caveat that I am probably the worst evaluator of WR talent. Almost 100% record on being wildly incorrect. So, there's that.

JPH83 02-06-2024 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17385048)
I'm completely out on any WRs below 5'11'' unless they're Tyreek Hill level athletes. You can thank Skyy Moore for that.

Malik Washington isn't anywhere near the athlete Hill is. He's probably not even quite the athlete Moore was.

I mean that is damn near a carbon copy of Skyy Moore's scouting report. Right down to the "This WR breaks tackles" as a feather in his cap. Fellas, that's like saying that the napkins are folded really well at a restaurant. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find positives for a player.

Nah - I don't even think I'd bother with Washington on Day 3. I've seen enough of those guys. When your upside is "he might be Richie James someday" then I really have little use for you.

Calvin Austin was never a Hill level athlete ;)

Couch-Potato 02-06-2024 01:09 PM

Just did a mock where DAL took Franklin ahead of us in the 1st and then Legette ahead of us in the 2nd. That duo could be electric! That's my dream combo for KC.

RunKC 02-06-2024 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17385048)
I'm completely out on any WRs below 5'11'' unless they're Tyreek Hill level athletes. You can thank Skyy Moore for that.

Malik Washington isn't anywhere near the athlete Hill is. He's probably not even quite the athlete Moore was.

I mean that is damn near a carbon copy of Skyy Moore's scouting report. Right down to the "This WR breaks tackles" as a feather in his cap. Fellas, that's like saying that the napkins are folded really well at a restaurant. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find positives for a player.

Nah - I don't even think I'd bother with Washington on Day 3. I've seen enough of those guys. When your upside is "he might be Richie James someday" then I really have little use for you.

I agree. The build would have to be thicker for me. Toney and Hardman are to light. Part of what made Tyreek good was he had a thicker build. Same with Rice but in different ways.

That's why I see a guy like Malachi Corley as interesting. He's just over 5'10" but 215 lbs. yes he's similar to Rice but if he runs in the low 4.4's and is available in the late 3rd rd, why not take him?

Also I'm still perplexed by Tabk Dell. That kid is 5'8" 165 lbs with 8.5" hands and was incredible. I guess outliers do come up

DJ's left nut 02-06-2024 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 17385358)
Calvin Austin was never a Hill level athlete ;)

You go to hell and you die!

DJ's left nut 02-06-2024 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17385535)
I agree. The build would have to be thicker for me. Toney and Hardman are to light. Part of what made Tyreek good was he had a thicker build. Same with Rice but in different ways.

That's why I see a guy like Malachi Corley as interesting. He's just over 5'10" but 215 lbs. yes he's similar to Rice but if he runs in the low 4.4's and is available in the late 3rd rd, why not take him?

Also I'm still perplexed by Tabk Dell. That kid is 5'8" 165 lbs with 8.5" hands and was incredible. I guess outliers do come up

I'm unlikely to be taking a WR in the 3rd or 4th round because I've almost certainly taken one in the 1st or 2nd.

Maybe I'd take a value play in the 4th. But we still need some DL help pretty badly, LB and TE could use some reinforcements. OL is going to need freshening up soon enough (or some very healthy contracts to be handed out).

I just think there are likely to be better ways to spend that capital. Maybe not - if I take Tez Walker in the 1st and Jalen McMillan is sitting there in the 3rd, I'm gonna grab McMillan. But if I'm betting, I just don't think the board will fall that way.

O.city 02-06-2024 03:45 PM

As much as I'd love a WR early...the DL spot is fairly dire here. We need some bodies in the middle there. Now maybe that's not worth that high of a pick and they can throw some #s at it, but still.

RunKC 02-06-2024 03:54 PM

It's fun to speculate but we really don't know what we'll need until March. If they keep Chris Jones that changes shit. If they sign a WR in FA that changes shit too

I just want good players. I still like Felix but I'd rather not get a redshirt player next year

O.city 02-06-2024 03:59 PM

Yeah, we can't really have a full redshirt yeah like that again.

Granted, where we pick it just is what it is.

JPH83 02-06-2024 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17385557)
You go to hell and you die!

Couldn't resist. To be honest I get your later point re needing to fill other gaps with the picks. I just think I'm using FA to sort the DL largely so taking maybe a raw DT R2-3 is fine by me.

WR, even if we get an FA guy or 2 we're likely seeing MVS, James, Ross gone, maybe Toney, and Moore continuing to do nothing. There's a lot of guys there we probably should let go and we can get improve upon this draft. Guys like Washington and the other one Tajh I'm just looking for them to be solid depth and better than the current load of @ss. There's loads of guys like that I could see offering something.

To be honest if there's a decent receiving TE or RB in R4-5 I'd be just as happy with that. Those groups need bolstering too.

Chris Meck 02-06-2024 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17385573)
As much as I'd love a WR early...the DL spot is fairly dire here. We need some bodies in the middle there. Now maybe that's not worth that high of a pick and they can throw some #s at it, but still.

That's a relatively inexpensive position in free agency.

Chris Meck 02-06-2024 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 17383840)
This is exactly what I was thinking, would be glorious. I've been pretty set on getting him, but to be honest I'm more and more relaxed about taking a few different routes. Any of the following works for me.

- Trade up ahead of the Bills for Franklin, call it good.
- Stay at 32 and get a traits guy like Legette, Mitchell or Walker (maybe) and double dip R4-5 with a guy like Malik Washington
- Move back and get one of the next tier in Wilson, Pearsall or Burton and again, double dip later.

We may not hit a home run and get a 1,000 yard rookie, but there's a lot of ways we end up better at WR.

We almost certainly WON'T, because we probably won't NEED to.

There's almost NO chance we don't bring in a vet as there's no way MVS is a Chief next year. You've got Rice, you've still got Kelce, there will be at LEAST one vet signing of significance and I'd be really surprised if we don't draft a WR in the first two rounds.

You've got a guy that's a legit threat to put up 1,000 plus, you've still got Kelce, you'll have another vet in the room, and you'll have a rookie that will be at BEST WR3 (so to speak) to start with.

So yeah, unless someone gets hurt, we won't be having a rookie go for 1,000 more than likely. It COULD happen, but probably not.

O.city 02-07-2024 07:51 AM

If they bring in a vet, I'd be more inclined to maybe take a swing at Legette with his measurables the upside would be theoretically higher.

But even then.....I dunno that I'd sacrifice any future picks.

Toad 02-07-2024 09:57 AM

IMHO, Brown or Mooney are the best fits to fill the field stretch role that will most assuredly be a gap if/when MVS is released.

I would like to see them take a shot at Hollywood.

Dunerdr 02-07-2024 10:50 AM

Draft Dudes took McConkey for us at 31 in their latest. Noted him as a sure handed, good route runner who would build quality chemistry with Mahomes. And they think Chemisty was a big issue for us this year.

staylor26 02-07-2024 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunerdr (Post 17386392)
Draft Dudes took McConkey for us at 31 in their latest. Noted him as a sure handed, good route runner who would build quality chemistry with Mahomes. And they think Chemisty was a big issue for us this year.

Ohh many of us draftubators would meltdown if this happened LMAO

Shoes 02-07-2024 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunerdr (Post 17386392)
Draft Dudes took McConkey for us at 31 in their latest.

McConkey is an intriguing WR that I think boosted his stock at Senior Bowl week but I don't think he is going to test very well. Right now in this draft cycle is where his stock is gonna be at an all time high, he's a good route runner who understands how to manipulate defensive backs to win. 1 on 1's at Senior Bowl week plays to his strengths, where McConkey's stock will fall is when he runs a 4.56 40 time. He's 5'11, 187 pounds- the main question is going to be can he survive over the middle in the NFL and make catches in tight windows.

Personally I don't think too much seperates McConkey from Pearsall, I think they are cut from a similar cloth. I just don't see how anyone can justify a round 1 grade on McConkey though, measurables matter and he just doesn't have them.

RunKC 02-07-2024 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17385561)
I'm unlikely to be taking a WR in the 3rd or 4th round because I've almost certainly taken one in the 1st or 2nd.

Maybe I'd take a value play in the 4th. But we still need some DL help pretty badly, LB and TE could use some reinforcements. OL is going to need freshening up soon enough (or some very healthy contracts to be handed out).

I just think there are likely to be better ways to spend that capital. Maybe not - if I take Tez Walker in the 1st and Jalen McMillan is sitting there in the 3rd, I'm gonna grab McMillan. But if I'm betting, I just don't think the board will fall that way.

A lot can change in the next 6 weeks but right now I think the odds of the Chiefs taking a WR in the 1st 2 rd is about 90%. The odds of them taking a DL in the first 2 rds, even if Chris stays, is at 50% and the odds of them taking an OL in the first 3 rds is pretty low.

I think they're 7 deep. I think Donovan Smith comes back, Thuney comes back and Allegretti stays while Wanya gets stronger in the off-season as the swing tackle. I don't really see IOL taken until day 3.

I honestly would not be shocked at all if we took 2 weapons in the first 3 rds, one of which being a TE.

Mecca 02-07-2024 11:44 AM

Oddly usually players don't say anything about where they want to go..Brock Bowers was all like I want the Titans to pick me.

Couch-Potato 02-08-2024 12:25 AM

ESPN's Draft Analyst Jordan Reid sites Keon Coleman as his #23 player, Legette at #47, and Franklin at #49 in his TOP 50 List.

JPH83 02-08-2024 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17385778)
We almost certainly WON'T, because we probably won't NEED to.

There's almost NO chance we don't bring in a vet as there's no way MVS is a Chief next year. You've got Rice, you've still got Kelce, there will be at LEAST one vet signing of significance and I'd be really surprised if we don't draft a WR in the first two rounds.

You've got a guy that's a legit threat to put up 1,000 plus, you've still got Kelce, you'll have another vet in the room, and you'll have a rookie that will be at BEST WR3 (so to speak) to start with.

So yeah, unless someone gets hurt, we won't be having a rookie go for 1,000 more than likely. It COULD happen, but probably not.

Oh for sure. Although I think it depends somewhat on the vet. The reality is, if it's Brown, Samuel, even Mooney (who I don't like much) they're almost certainly more productive than MVS this year.

As I say, lots of ways for us to get better.

Couch-Potato 02-08-2024 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17385087)
Ok, wait. Looking for additional opinions on this.

Does the league view Oregon's offense the same way they do TEN?

Are we too high on Franklin based on some gimmick offense?

Here's a response to my own question that CP might find interesting:
Spoiler!

staylor26 02-08-2024 09:50 AM

I'm really warming up to Keon Coleman as a possibility in round 1.

You can sign a guy like Mooney to be the deep threat, and just let Coleman and Rice bully corners.

O.city 02-08-2024 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17387465)
I'm really warming up to Keon Coleman as a possibility in round 1.

There's some real upside there but.....I'm just not a fan of that type of WR.

I dunno, maybe it would work.

DJ's left nut 02-08-2024 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17387465)
I'm really warming up to Keon Coleman as a possibility in round 1.

You can sign a guy like Mooney to be the deep threat, and just let Coleman and Rice bully corners.

Yeah - I'm just not going to get there.

WR's that don't get good separation just aren't a good fit in this offense. It's not a bully ball offense. It's about timing and quick separation.

The same reasons you thought Moore SHOULD work in this offense are why Coleman wouldn't, IMO. And I just don't see much 'there' there in terms of traits. He has good size and that's almost literally the last thing on my list for WR traits.

I just don't know what I see that actually translates well to a timing offense. Bigger bodied guys that can screen dudes off, even if we find a way to make them work here, don't require 1st round picks. Those can be found in the middle rounds.

I just can't see a way I ever find him all that attractive in the 1st. Should he really slide and fall into the late 2nd - sure. But I'm not gonna get there in the first. I just can't see a scenario where 8 other WRs go off the board (which is about what it would take to put him at the top of my WR list) and not leave someone else at a different position I'd far rather have.

Mecca 02-08-2024 10:50 AM

Troy Franklin is the guy, if he's not there then I think you pivot to the OL or DL.

Shoes 02-08-2024 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17387574)
Yeah - I'm just not going to get there.

WR's that don't get good separation just aren't a good fit in this offense. It's not a bully ball offense. It's about timing and quick separation.

The same reasons you thought Moore SHOULD work in this offense are why Coleman wouldn't, IMO. And I just don't see much 'there' there in terms of traits. He has good size and that's almost literally the last thing on my list for WR traits.

I just don't know what I see that actually translates well to a timing offense. Bigger bodied guys that can screen dudes off, even if we find a way to make them work here, don't require 1st round picks. Those can be found in the middle rounds.

I just can't see a way I ever find him all that attractive in the 1st. Should he really slide and fall into the late 2nd - sure. But I'm not gonna get there in the first. I just can't see a scenario where 8 other WRs go off the board (which is about what it would take to put him at the top of my WR list) and not leave someone else at a different position I'd far rather have.

Not that I disagree with your main sentiment but playing devil's advocate- I thought Rashee Rice's tape last year showed a guy who also had a decent amount of bully ball in his game. A lot of back shoulder fades and go win plays. I think sometimes at the NCAA level when you have an extremely talented player, the coaching staff can revert to the "my guy is better than your guy" play design.

What I like about Coleman beyond his obvious size is that Florida State used him a fair amount in the screen game and even to return punts. Very fluid athlete at his size- I personally don't think he is just a bully ball receiver. Quite a few plays on his tape where he routinely makes a defender miss and picks up the YAC yards. We'll see how his testing goes but I think your underestimating his athletic ability.

O.city 02-08-2024 11:08 AM

Franklin is the one I've just zeroed in on, for a couple reasons.

He has alot that this offense needs in terms of speed, ability etc. I think he also may end up going before we pick, so it may not matter.

But he's also an ideal pairing for Rice. Put those two together and it's a nice Batman and Robin.

Couch-Potato 02-08-2024 11:37 AM

I'm starting to believe we've got Coleman and Franklin flipped, or at least the league does. Seems like the pros expect Coleman will go #4 and Franklin #5 or #6 WR off the board. I can't quite figure it out, but scouts and draft heads just aren't quite as high on Franklin as we are yet and despite the lack of production routinely take Coleman over Franklin, and even occasionally have him taken in the top 15. Must be his frame, athletic traits, and youth?

staylor26 02-08-2024 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17387574)
Yeah - I'm just not going to get there.

WR's that don't get good separation just aren't a good fit in this offense. It's not a bully ball offense. It's about timing and quick separation.

The same reasons you thought Moore SHOULD work in this offense are why Coleman wouldn't, IMO. And I just don't see much 'there' there in terms of traits. He has good size and that's almost literally the last thing on my list for WR traits.

I just don't know what I see that actually translates well to a timing offense. Bigger bodied guys that can screen dudes off, even if we find a way to make them work here, don't require 1st round picks. Those can be found in the middle rounds.

I just can't see a way I ever find him all that attractive in the 1st. Should he really slide and fall into the late 2nd - sure. But I'm not gonna get there in the first. I just can't see a scenario where 8 other WRs go off the board (which is about what it would take to put him at the top of my WR list) and not leave someone else at a different position I'd far rather have.

Shoes pretty much hit the nail on the head as to why I've warmed up to him:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoes (Post 17387613)
Not that I disagree with your main sentiment but playing devil's advocate- I thought Rashee Rice's tape last year showed a guy who also had a decent amount of bully ball in his game. A lot of back shoulder fades and go win plays. I think sometimes at the NCAA level when you have an extremely talented player, the coaching staff can revert to the "my guy is better than your guy" play design.

What I like about Coleman beyond his obvious size is that Florida State used him a fair amount in the screen game and even to return punts. Very fluid athlete at his size- I personally don't think he is just a bully ball receiver. Quite a few plays on his tape where he routinely makes a defender miss and picks up the YAC yards. We'll see how his testing goes but I think your underestimating his athletic ability.

If he were just a Mike Williams type, like I initially thought, I'd be out on him.

But I just think there's more to his game that makes him a fit.

staylor26 02-08-2024 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17387674)
I'm starting to believe we've got Coleman and Franklin flipped, or at least the league does. Seems like the pros expect Coleman will go #4 and Franklin #5 or #6 WR off the board. I can't quite figure it out, but scouts and draft heads just aren't quite as high on Franklin as we are yet and despite the lack of production routinely take Coleman over Franklin, and even occasionally have him taken in the top 15. Must be his frame, athletic traits, and youth?

It's still Franklin > Coleman for me, but I definitely think Coleman is in the conversation.

O.city 02-08-2024 11:42 AM

Coleman just seems a bit redundant to what Rice does for me, but I'm not really against that if that's what we're going for.

I'd like to have a guy that can really do it all though.

staylor26 02-09-2024 12:22 AM

I also think Ja'Tavion Samders needs to be in the conversation. I think he will be after the combine. Him and Kelce would be ****ing insane, and help keep Kelce fresh.

This of course would have to come with a significant WR signing in free agency.

JPH83 02-09-2024 12:42 AM

Franklin is the guy for me. If he's gone I'm sulking and probably not that fussed who we pick.

Coleman I said early I just didn't like at all, for all the reasons DJ mentioned. But I'm warming a little for the reasons Shoes mentioned. I keep hearing evaluators say "it's not that he can't separate, it's just that he doesn't". I'm pretty suspicious of this, but they seem to be referencing his athleticism. Maybe. If he tests well I could go with it perhaps. If the league likes him more than Franklin, fine by me.

bigjosh 02-09-2024 05:32 AM

Remember, these draft heads had Skyy as a potential first round pick.


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tmax63 02-09-2024 08:48 AM

I'm sure someone has already said it but I'm hoping #15 holds another receiver workout "camp" like last year and tells Veach who he wants. PMII liked Rice last year and it turned out pretty good. Why not do it again.

DJ's left nut 02-09-2024 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmax63 (Post 17388946)
I'm sure someone has already said it but I'm hoping #15 holds another receiver workout "camp" like last year and tells Veach who he wants. PMII liked Rice last year and it turned out pretty good. Why not do it again.

If not this year, it will be next, that Veach uses one of these "Camp Mahomes" things into a smokescreen that gets folks biting on WRs they weren't looking that hard at.

Because there are some really dumb, lazy front offices in this league.

staylor26 02-09-2024 11:10 AM

DJ, what do you think about Sanders at 31/32 if he lights up the combine like people expect?

RunKC 02-09-2024 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17388770)
I also think Ja'Tavion Samders needs to be in the conversation. I think he will be after the combine. Him and Kelce would be ****ing insane, and help keep Kelce fresh.

This of course would have to come with a significant WR signing in free agency.

Not sure we'd need a significant WR signing in that scenario bc Sanders would be a WR here like Kelce.

I would love nothing more than to destroy defenses in 12/13 personnel the way the Patriots did with Gronk/Hernandez.

That's such a difficult offense to defend. God it would be awesome

DJ's left nut 02-09-2024 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17389172)
DJ, what do you think about Sanders at 31/32 if he lights up the combine like people expect?

Presume you mean Ja'Tavion?

Wouldn't be opposed to it. Not sure if he'd be my BPA at the time, but in a thin TE group, he's one of 2 guys that seem to present a possible difference-maker skill-set.

And I think Andy would get a TON of production out of him during that rookie deal.

My question with Sanders is really whether or not we're a year early with him still. Do we NEED to get a guy because he's a turnkey move TE just yet? Because that's still Kelce. Can't we lean more heavily into Gray to take some load off Kelce? And ultimately would a developmental TE like Johnson or Knox be someone who could be turned into a true Kelce replacement in a season or two at the cost of a much later pick?

I'm still not whole-hog on TE and I think LaPorta, who many people cite as a reason we SHOULD'VE gone TE in the first last year, actually shows why we shouldn't. He wouldn't have been that kind of player here this season. Probably not next. But we'd have had to use that sort of capital on him anyway.

Do you get diminishing returns by going earlier than you have to?

Then again, the wall can hit hard. I thought we could afford to wait on a downfield Z like Hyatt because we had MVS for a year and could get that sort of player this season. Then MVS was hot garbage and a rookie with downfield speed might've been nice. Do I think the wall approacheth for Kelce? No, not quite. He'll continue to decline a bit but still be a top 3 TE. Does that truly need a 1st day replacement? Nah, probably not.

staylor26 02-09-2024 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17389178)
Presume you mean Ja'Tavion?

Wouldn't be opposed to it. Not sure if he'd be my BPA at the time, but in a thin TE group, he's one of 2 guys that seem to present a possible difference-maker skill-set.

And I think Andy would get a TON of production out of him during that rookie deal.

My question with Sanders is really whether or not we're a year early with him still. Do we NEED to get a guy because he's a turnkey move TE just yet? Because that's still Kelce. Can't we lean more heavily into Gray to take some load off Kelce? And ultimately would a developmental TE like Johnson or Knox be someone who could be turned into a true Kelce replacement in a season or two at the cost of a much later pick?

I'm still not whole-hog on TE and I think LaPorta, who many people cite as a reason we SHOULD'VE gone TE in the first last year, actually shows why we shouldn't. He wouldn't have been that kind of player here this season. Probably not next. But we'd have had to use that sort of capital on him anyway.

Do you get diminishing returns by going earlier than you have to?

Then again, the wall can hit hard. I thought we could afford to wait on a downfield Z like Hyatt because we had MVS for a year and could get that sort of player this season. Then MVS was hot garbage and a rookie with downfield speed might've been nice. Do I think the wall approacheth for Kelce? No, not quite. He'll continue to decline a bit but still be a top 3 TE. Does that truly need a 1st day replacement? Nah, probably not.

I agree, and he wouldn't be my first choice, but my thinking is that if the top WRs and DTs are off the board, and there's no LT they love, he might just be BPA.

O.city 02-09-2024 12:19 PM

I'd love to get my hands on Kyle Pitts here somehow.

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17387674)
I'm starting to believe we've got Coleman and Franklin flipped, or at least the league does. Seems like the pros expect Coleman will go #4 and Franklin #5 or #6 WR off the board. I can't quite figure it out, but scouts and draft heads just aren't quite as high on Franklin as we are yet and despite the lack of production routinely take Coleman over Franklin, and even occasionally have him taken in the top 15. Must be his frame, athletic traits, and youth?

I heard Coleman compared to Mike Evans today and thought hmmmmm, isn't that who most of CP has been clambering for all year? You know, that guy with 10 consecutive 1k yard seasons. Turns out he had question marks around his separation coming out of college too.

Their scouting reports sound pretty similar:

Spoiler!

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 12:48 PM

PFF guys seemed a just a tiny bit dismissive of Legette's performance at the Sr Bowl. I got the perception they were saying "he was fine, but he didn't stand out much either."

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 12:54 PM

Franklin,
Coleman,
Thomas Jr,
Legette

Those are the only WRs I'd consider at our spot in the 1st. If Franklin's within reach, I say go up and get him because he's the best fit for what the Chiefs like to do on offense, but If not, at least one of these guys is going to drop to us at the bottom of the first. Remember that 6 is still the record for the amount of WRs taken in the 1st and there's already 3 names that are dead locks ahead of my list here.

I'd be excited about anyone of these guys!

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17389324)
Franklin,
Coleman,
Thomas Jr,
Legette

Those are the only WRs I'd consider at our spot in the 1st. If Franklin's within reach, I say go up and get him because he's the best fit for what the Chiefs like to do on offense, but If not, at least one of these guys is going to drop to us at the bottom of the first. Remember that 6 is still the record for the amount of WRs taken in the 1st and there's already 3 names that are dead locks ahead of my list here.

I'd be excited about anyone of these guys!

I'll add to this that I've got a growing theory that the 2nd round is where the value will be at WR. Not that we'll wait to pick one there, but hear me out... I forget which draft head said this but he ranked 11 WRS in the top 50 this year, highlighting how good the WR class is. If 6 WRs is the most ever taken in a round, it seems likely that 1 of those WRs in the top 50 would fall to us in the bottom of the 2nd.

Add to the above the price of moving up in the 1st is expensive, and the value for trading down from the 1st into the 2nd (thanks KCrow) isn't there, maybe our best value at WR would be trading up from our 2nd into the middle of the 2nd round so that we can have our pick of one of the remaining 3-4 WRs ranked in the Top 50? Trading up in the 2nd seems to be a lot more equitable. I noted a few teams that moved up 9-12 spots in 2nd for a 3rd when doing some research as a reference.

Seems this has been Veach's strategy for several years, I wonder if I might be on to something here?

duncan_idaho 02-09-2024 01:56 PM

Sanders in round 1 or after a small trade back into round 2 wouldn’t be a bad way to approach it if you commit to the 12 set as your base.

If you run 12 as frequently as you have run 11 in the past, I’d look at it no different than committing to a WR instead.

Either way, you’re talking about a starter-level receiving target.

Sanders with the first pick/Roman Wilson with the 3rd would be an intriguing way to attack it,
iMO.

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17389382)
Sanders in round 1 or after a small trade back into round 2 wouldn’t be a bad way to approach it if you commit to the 12 set as your base.

If you run 12 as frequently as you have run 11 in the past, I’d look at it no different than committing to a WR instead.

Either way, you’re talking about a starter-level receiving target.

Sanders with the first pick/Roman Wilson with the 3rd would be an intriguing way to attack it,
iMO.

How do you guys feel about Johnny Wilson as a TE at the bottom of the 2nd or in the 3rd round? Andy could move him all over, we could put some weight on him and convert him to Travis's eventual replacement.

gordonelloyd 02-09-2024 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17389176)
Not sure we'd need a significant WR signing in that scenario bc Sanders would be a WR here like Kelce.

I would love nothing more than to destroy defenses in 12/13 personnel the way the Patriots did with Gronk/Hernandez.

That's such a difficult offense to defend. God it would be awesome

Glad to see support for going for a 2TE approach. Gives us a good receiver, and an eventual replacement for Kelce. Depending on who’s available maybe use our number 1 pick on a TE , UNLESS FRANKLIN IS AVAILABLE, and 2 on a WR. I agree it would probably be better value to trade up in round 2 that in round 1.

I don’t understand why there’s a feeling Laporta would not have worked out for KC. He wouldn’t have done as well as he did in Detroit in all likelihood, but would have been a much better receiver option than what we had beyond Rice and Kelce.

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordonelloyd (Post 17389576)
Glad to see support for going for a 2TE approach. Gives us a good receiver, and an eventual replacement for Kelce. Depending on who’s available maybe use our number 1 pick on a TE , UNLESS FRANKLIN IS AVAILABLE, and 2 on a WR. I agree it would probably be better value to trade up in round 2 that in round 1.

I don’t understand why there’s a feeling Laporta would not have worked out for KC. He wouldn’t have done as well as he did in Detroit in all likelihood, but would have been a much better receiver option than what we had beyond Rice and Kelce.

LaPorta woulda been great in KC but Rice was a better fit for what we needed, and thank god we went that way or the cupboard woulda been completely empty at WR this season.

Nightfyre 02-09-2024 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17389651)
LaPorta woulda been great in KC but Rice was a better fit for what we needed, and thank god we went that way or the cupboard woulda been completely empty at WR this season.

I think Kincaid was the best fit, with the retrospect of the first season in the books. Granted, we would have had to make a move, but he looks like the next Kelce to me.

OKchiefs 02-09-2024 06:44 PM

I don’t necessarily hate the idea of TE in the 1st, although I think it might be a year too early but who knows. My concern would be if this is another FAU situation where aside from injury that player isn’t get much time in year 1? I’m not sure we would run 3 TE sets THAT often and I question if a rookie would pass Gray on the depth chart anytime soon. But if it’s BPA then so be it, we need weapons on offense however we can get them.

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 17389699)
I think Kincaid was the best fit, with the retrospect of the first season in the books. Granted, we would have had to make a move, but he looks like the next Kelce to me.

Now say we woulda taken La Porta, or to your comment Kincaid, in the 1st and still taken Rice in the 2nd... That woulda been pretty spectacular!

kccrow 02-09-2024 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 17389712)
I don’t necessarily hate the idea of TE in the 1st, although I think it might be a year too early but who knows. My concern would be if this is another FAU situation where aside from injury that player isn’t get much time in year 1? I’m not sure we would run 3 TE sets THAT often and I question if a rookie would pass Gray on the depth chart anytime soon. But if it’s BPA then so be it, we need weapons on offense however we can get them.

'24 is the last year of Gray's deal so I'm not sure I'd personally care if a rookie passed him up on the depth chart. May the best man win.

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 10:06 PM

I splurged on a PFF membership and will post some stats for our target WRs

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 10:26 PM

Couple interesting PFF stats I noticed at first glance...

Thomas Jr at #4
Troy Franklin at #5 with 10% drops
McConkey next at #6
Coleman #7
Mitchell #8
Dez Walker #9
Jermaine Burton at #10 with 0% drops
Legette at #11

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 10:33 PM

Legette has some pretty elite #'s

2.7% drop rate (2 drops to 71 catches)
3.15 yards per route run (Have only noticed Harrison Jr and Nabers at 3+)
85.5% vs man coverage
86.9% receiving grade
82.5% overall grade (Very few WRs with 80%+ grades this season, Thomas Jr was 74%)

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 10:36 PM

Malachi Corley avg 8.6 yards after catch! Damn!

Couch-Potato 02-09-2024 10:45 PM

I think we're sleeping on Malik Washington a bit.

#1 in missed tackles forced
#1 yards from slot
#2 rec from slot
64.7% contested catch rate
2.6% drop rate with 3 total
3.15 yards per route run
92.4% receiving grade (Harrison Jr 89.6% and Nabers 93.1%)


Look a lot bigger than he's listed out there, plays tough, is known for making clutch plays.

Is he this year's beefed up Tank Dell?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urIFD2bo4FY


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