Need to enjoy this group of weapons bc at least 2 of them will be gone/replaced in 3 years.

Precisely...

These things are good to see for the people who think camp INTs are some horrible indicator of things to come, but everyone should expect him to throw at least 10-12 INTs this year and probably closer to 15.

At least 2? So possibly 3? We are going to lose 3 of them in 3 years?

Lol yea that’s a bit much. I’d say at least 1, maybe 2.

Probably not 3 but at least 2.

In 3 years we will (hopefully) have to deal with this:

Mahomes highest paid contract in NFL pending.
Sammy Watkins new contract. Highest paid WR
Tyreek Hill ditto ^
Kareem Hunt highest paid RB new contract

I think Kelce is for sure the odd man out in this scenario

I highly doubt that Watkins gets another contract from us.

Aaron Rodgers is a bust. The Packers should make a trade offer for Chad Kelly.

Why does anyone worry about paying Hunt? Run him for 4 years and let someone else pay him

That's why the Rams are stupid.

I think Mahomes and Hill are the only two that will be here past 3 years. Kelce was older coming out of school. He turns 29 in October. The way he plays the game isn’t very good for having a long career. Watkins is already highly paid and it seems rare for teams to give the same guy two huge contracts in a row. Hunt is a good RB, but it’s hard to see us investing at that level in an RB when you can get a more reliable and fresh option in the draft for nothing.

RB’s don’t last long anymore. I’m hoping we can keep Kelce & Hill but it might not be cost effective.

I tend to agree, unless he proves to have an impact similar to Marshawn in Seattle. Playing style is similar.

A shit-load can change, so it's useless guessing, but Kelce is far more likely to stick with us for years to come than Watkins.

In such a pipedream, it's Watkins or Hill that goes. You can't pay 2 WRs the kind of numbers Cooks and Diggs are getting. You just can't.

Agree with this. If Mahomes is worth the money he will be developing WRs for us.

https://www.chiefs.com/news/second-y...?sf194560615=1


This is, in my opinion, the most under-appreciated development in camp. This would be soooo huge if he turns into a Kearse-type player.

It's hilarious how people were wanting to quickly discard Tanoh because he didn't learn how to play a new position while transitioning from basically D2 ncaa football to the NFL in a few months.

"****ing garbage"

You answered your question.

not discrediting it but relative to the value invested, a round 2 pick. a player should not be that raw.

We’re gonna need at least 2 of the 3 OLBs behind Houston to step up big this year. If 3-4 of them tear it up for 16 games, we should be SB contenders in theory.

Chargers just had another starting CB carted off the field. Holy shit.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chargers cornerback Trevor Williams had to be helped off the field with an injury. The team just lost starting CB Jason Verrett for the season, so any injury to Williams would be a huge blow.</p>&mdash; Ryan Kartje (@Ryan_Kartje) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ryan_Kartje/status/1024365365747273728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well, if four OLBs tear it up behind Houston, who would be the 4th guy? Frank Zombo?

Not to mention the guy was pretty ****ing productive in his lone start last year going up against a fellow rookie that was a 1st rounder.

The lack of patience with youmg players is ridiculously ignorant.

That's a bigger loss than Verrett if it's serious.

omg

Keep ****ing doubting the Zombonater.

While I feel bad for Williams, **** the Chargers for being picked #1 in the division for no real reason

Problem wasn’t Tanoh. It was where he was drafted.

Don’t draft small school raw players to play a new position in rd ****ing 2.

I understand that all teams have injuries, but the Chargers... Man o man.

Kind of like Eric Fisher I'm less worried about draft grades in July and just glad we're getting a serviceable player.



edit: also it's a leg injury of some kind for Williams

I meant including Houston in that sentence

I really hate it for the Chargers. I just hope we don’t have these same issues. I know someone will get hurt, likely many, but in July? Sheesh.

If you think the safety position looks weak now, just wait until Berry inevitably gets hurt again. :shake:

I never declare draft picks to be failures without first seeing them fail consistently, and Tanoh had yet to demonstrate ANY kind of pattern (for failure or success) simply because he wasn't on the field ever. That's how you develop a player like that, and it was smart on Reid and Sutton's part. Basically, he got a redshirt year just like Mahomes did.

That being said, I DID complain about the pick when it was made and throughout the regular season last year because it nearly perfectly encapsulated Dorsey's draft strategy and why it could and often did lead to problems.

Tanoh had the cards stacked against him for a 2nd round pick, and I don't think that's an unfair statement to make even if he ends up being a great player. When he was drafted, his role was undefined-- people didn't know if he would play DL or OLB or be some worthless tweener. His college production compared to the level of competition he faced was also a huge concern-- people just didn't know what he was being asked to do in college that made those numbers so low. Compared to another freak athlete we drafted high like Poe, we were at least able to point to the tremendous upside and say, "His coaches weren't using him properly and didn't seem to care about getting him to play with leverage." I don't think it was clear what Tanoh was doing "wrong" in college that led to him to not successfully using his Samson strength and Stretch Armstrong length to his advantage.

I think it's possible to bemoan a draft pick and not shit on the player, necessarily.

Man, he just looks so out of place at OLB. Would be nice for it to workout, but damn, that athleticism could be such a force inside vs guards and centers.

A guy like that with his gifts should be able to make plays all over the LOS. We should move him around a lot.

That’s definitely fair. I wasn’t thrilled with the pick either, especially when they announced that he was going to be an OLB.

I'd call the Achilles the only "real" injury. The knee was a hit job and the cancer was a freak thing.
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Somehow, fans would still find a way to criticize Dorsey's drafts.

He was outstanding at drafting.

Tanoh might very well prove to be another hit for him.

I trusted Dorsey all the way when it came to drafting.

Was he though? I mean, yeah he definitely had some hits. But is it really that much more than the average?

Negative Nancy..... Debbie Downer... Bet you he plays the whole year..

He was okay at finding offensive talent, complete shit at drafting defense.

His hits were big but they were also shortcuts in many ways. Look at Peters. Only got 3 years out of him.

This is exactly why I liked this years draft. All players were from big schools and had extensive experience playing positions similar to what they are now playing with us and they are ready to go day 1.

The first 2 rds for sure need to be players with decent floors. Unless it’s a QB, get the raw, small school high ceiling guys in the mid rds.

The Chiefs have been putting Chris Jones in a stand-up role in a few different packages this training camp. Justin Houston, the vet, already IS playing at every position, both on and off the line. Speaks is a rookie, and we're mostly working on finding him a home at OLB, but he's a former DT, and you can bet we're going to eventually move him around all different spots in the front 7.

Our safeties don't really have defined roles. Fuller and Nelson are both going to be used to defend outside and in the slot.

It's pretty clear that the Chiefs value players who do all kinds of things in all kinds of different formations in order to confuse offenses and mask their intentions when they line up. We've always done that since Sutton got here, but with a pick like Kpassagnon, I can at the very least respect that they don't believe in necessarily taking the player who will play the best in a particular defined position.

If they think an important future trend of defense in the NFL is having do-it-all players like Kpassagnon with the physical gifts to be disruptive no matter where they are, then I will be more than willing to chalk up my distrust of picking guys that high to my lack of understanding as a mere fan and not being able to think about things outside the box.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Update on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chargers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chargers</a> CB Trevor Williams: He was seen leaving the facility on crutches with his left foot in a walking boot. HC Anthony Lynn didn&#39;t give any update on the severity.</p>&mdash; NFL Update (@MySportsUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1024388232082022401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

3 years of Pro-Bowl/All-Pro out of him (plus a 2nd and 4th round picks).

Do people even know that this is better return than your average mid 1st round pick?

You'd rather have had Devante Parker, Melvin Gordon, Kevin Johnson or Arik Armstead, all guys drafted right in front of Peters? Or Cameron Erving, Agholor or Ogbuehi drafted right after..

The problem with just doing that though is you miss out on high ceiling guys

Peters also has a negative influence on the physicality and attitude of the defense, one could argue. So was it really worth it?

In five years of drafting (not having 2nd round picks for his first two years):

- He made the right choice between Fisher and Joeckel
- Kelce a top 3 TE in the 3rd round
- Hill a borderline top 10 WR in the 5th round
- LDT a solid guard in the 6th round
- Fulton a decent guard who has just cashed in 4 y/28M in the 6th round
- Chris Jones a top young DL in the 2nd round
- Peters is Peters
- Conley/Robinson as solid WR picks for 3rd and 4th round picks
- Nelson a decent late 3rd round pick started at CB
- Mahomes
- Hunt
- Kpassagnon (remains to be seen but I have a feeling he will be good)


Just name me one team which has drafted better in the last few years. I will wait.

For some reason, a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations when it comes to the draft.

The long-term trend seems to be that positions are going away. Lineman move all over, linebackers are hybrid edge rushers, and safeties even seem to be diverging from the classic SS/FS model. Cornerbacks are the only position that seem to be pure relative to how they were defined 25 years ago.

Lol his stats speak for themselves. His All-pro honours speak for themselves.

It's as if you would tell me a 1200 yard and 10 TD receiver is a nuisance to the team.

I have no doubt that Veach and Reid had concerns as for Peters down the road, as he is approaching payday, and he will always be a risky player in terms of attitude and behaviour, but no one should question the fact that Peters was a great player for this team.

And I will say this about Peters. Sure he had attitude problems and maybe rubbed the wrong way his teammates sometimes but the guy was really competitive, had short memory and wouldn't put up with defeat. I respect that.

uhh.....

Terrell Owens?

This.

The Dorsey hate is idiotic. He was absolutely LOVED here until he was fired. Upon his firing, people were pissed.

Then, after weeks of debate, people convinced themselves that Dorsey was junk and that Veach was THE MAN.

Veach's first draft, on paper, is underwhelming as hell yet he gets the genius treatment because homerism.

I did an analysis in 2017 of this. See Post 73 of this thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...hlight=Packers. Using a neutral third-party data source, it showed that the Chiefs were the best team in the NFL on draft success during the Dorsey era.

I have no problem with the Perters pick - the trade, that's a different story.

Not saying I wouldn't have done it and we are getting 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder for him, which isn't nothing. The heartburn I get from the trade of peter is that our defense with Fuller and Perters could have been something else. Oh well.

This too.

Trying to pretend that our issues in run support, or the D's lack of agression were Peters' fault is just ignant. If 10 other guys played like shit because Peters gave a poor tackling effort once in awhile (this shit is waaaaay overblown) then honestly, they have no business on an NFL roster.

FYP

You don't even need analysis for that. Anyone with half a brain can recognize this.

This is simply "Ex-GF" syndrome, in which your hot ex GF leaves you and you spend all your time rationalizing why she was wrong for you, and why your rebound bitch, ugly-fat Betty is the best thing for you now.

Yet Dorsey somehow doesn't get credit even though he was drafted under Dorsey?

See, that's that moronic shit i'm talking about.

As Chuck Noll once said, "If I have to motivate you, I'm going to fire you."

Meanwhile, there's been little to no criticism of Veach's draft, that on paper, looks ugly as sin.

I disagree with some things in here. People didn't convince themselves he was junk, the cap was a legit mess and players, top players, were pouting and not showing up to OTAs based directly on Dorsey's actions.

Veach's draft is going to be underwhelming without a first round pick but he appears to have nailed one on Tremon Smith anyway. Weren't you just saying people should give KPass time? and you're already burying this draft?

PMII was 100% a Veach guy per Reid, and it has been covered ad nauseam

I said on paper, regarding this draft. Initially, this draft looks like shit. Of course we'll have to see how it pans out.

And the cap issue was bound to clear up. What cap saving move has Veach done that Dorsey wouldn't have?

We all knew that Hali, DJ and Alex were going to be off the books. That was a given. The cap doesn't stay stagnant.

The fact that Tremon Smith is your shinning hope for this draft class should say enough.

Wrong.

Reid did not say that. He said Veach was adamant about him.

DORSEY is who engineered the trade. You think he wouldn't have engineered that trade if he wasn't in agreement?

He's the ****ing GM, regardless of who supported what pick, he gets credit. He gets blame for the busts, he gets credit for the stars. It happened under his watch. That's how this works.

Veach didn’t have a pick this year until 59, so it’s not all that fair to judge right now. Also, I think on paper it looks pretty darn decent given what he had to work with.

First I don't know why you're immediately strident whenever someone disagrees with you. Second Tremon looks legit and he's a 6th rounder. That's a good pick. Your take on the draft is pure opinion and one I don't disagree with necessarily but I know better than to make snap judgements.

But this cap issue being bound to clear up is just wishful thinking and not based on any kind of reality whatsoever.

Veach brought him to forefront and statements like "one of the best players I've scouted" dude. you are skewing the narrative.

No, no the **** it doesn't. Again, this is you being glass half full. IMO, this draft reeks of scouting arrogance. A bunch of small school prospects. We'll see of course, but there's no way in hell you can look at this draft class and call it decent.

Maybe it turns out that way, it's impossible to know. But purely from a big name, high pedigree stand point, this draft sucked. There's no blue chippers in there that you can say, "Yup, that guy will be good. For sure."

I don't get strident. I argue an opinion, otherwise, wtf are we here for? To sing songs and hold hands in unison about everything?

What i notice is that people get all sensitive and shit while they interpret my tone. The pussification of CP continues.

And again, before Dorsey was let go, it was common knowledge that those 3 huge cap hits would be gone and would in fact clear up cap space. So i ask, what big cap moves did Veach do to clear space that weren't already a given?

The only ones skewing the narrative are the ones that want to dump busts on Dorsey while not giving him credit for those he drafted. That's not how this works. That's not how this has EVER worked.

But how convenient that the rules changed for Dorsey, after Dorsey was fired, eh? But i'm skewing the narrative? Mmmkay...

Doresy deserves credit for drafts.... But the guy was DOG SHIT when it came to contracts

LOL, on PMII yes you are. Veach was hired because of him, Brett will sink or swim on Mahomes' success.

Depends on what your expectations are. I don’t think there is a true “star” but a bunch of solid players.

This defense needs those kind of guys badly.

I think people were hating on Dorsey for cap management reasons and letting too many big money deals consume the team. I don't think anybody said he was shitty at drafting or going dumpster diving for random players off waivers and practice squads who made some decent contributions.

The criticism I put up about his drafts wasn't just a, "Oh, he's fired? Well, I never liked this aspect of his drafts!" kind of thing. It was something discussed on CP going all the way back to the Dee Ford pick: Dorsey tended to shoot for the moon a lot in the first 3-4 rounds when he didn't necessarily have to. He'd draft a lot of high-ceiling and low floor players with really valuable draft stock, and many of those players were guys who would need redshirt rookie seasons because they'd otherwise simply get abused during the regular season. People pointed out that when he made those picks, there were plenty of guys throughout those drafts who had close to the same potential without so many hurdles to cross early in their careers.

Yes, you have to do that sometimes. Every GM does it occasionally. Even Scott Pioli did it with the Dontari Poe pick. But you need balance in case those raw, high ceiling guys don't hit at the rate you want them to.

You can criticize him for a draft strategy without saying, "I think he sucks at drafting!" Although, damn... I'm still pretty stunned how he handled the Browns' first two picks in 2018.

Definitely some good picks. But compared to other top teams around the league, I dunno that it’s crazy to say it’s nearly the same.

He definitely had an eye for talent. The cap stuff got him in trouble and apparently his interactions with others or whatever.

I liked him here for sure.

Who are these small school prospects you’re talking about?

There’s one 6th rounder from a small school. Other than that...?

I don't know which small schools he is referring to either:

Breeland Speaks- Ole Miss
Derrick Nnadi- Florida State
Dorian O'Daniel- Clemson
Armani Watts- Texas A&M
Tremon Smith- Central Arkansas
Khalil McKenzie- Tennessee

Literally only Tremon Smith is who I'd consider a small school prospect- interestingly enough Tremon Smith has a lot more hype surrounding him than the other draft picks.

Alright, touche.